Episode 588
with R. Eric Thomas, Ian Karmel, and NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND
Author and columnist R. Eric Thomas shares anecdotes from his memoir Congratulations, The Best Is Over, including how baking cupcakes may have saved his life; standup comedian Ian Karmel makes the case for why Arby's is a farm-to-table restaurant; and indie group NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND perform the title track off their new album Big and Kind. Plus, host Luke Burbank and announcer Elena Passarello reveal the surprising differences between our listeners and their partners.
R. Eric Thomas
Award-winning Writer and Host
R. Eric Thomas is the bestselling author of Here for It: Or, How to Save Your Soul in America, a Lambda Literary Award finalist, and the YA novel Kings of B’more, a Stonewall Honor book. Both books were also featured as Read with Jenna book-club picks on Today. He is also a television writer (Apple TV+’s Dickinson, FX’s Better Things), a Lambda Literary Award-winning playwright, and the long-running host of The Moth in Philadelphia. For four years, he was a senior staff writer at ELLE online, where he wrote the popular “Eric Reads the News” column. His latest book, “Congratulations, The Best Is Over,” is collection of heartening, deeply relatable, and laugh-out-loud essays about what happens after happily ever after.
Ian Karmel
Comedian, Actor, Author
Ian Karmel is an Emmy nominated stand-up comedian, actor, and writer. He was the co-head writer for the Emmy award-winning "The Late Late Show with James Cordon" (of which Ian was one of the founding writers in the show's 2015 re-creation) and a staff writer and round table regular on E!'s Chelsea Lately. Ian's stand-up has been featured on Conan, The Late Late Show, Comedy Central, and most recently showcased on Netflix's The Comedy Line Up: Part 1. His debut comedy album, 9.2 on Pitchfork, was released in 2015 to rave reviews. Ian's weekly podcast All Fantasy Everything, has been featured on many best of lists. Hometown hero, Ian played an instrumental role in Portland's comedy renaissance and was voted Portland's Funniest Person in 2011.
NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND
Musicians
NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND is a bedroom punk band having a big moment in the spotlight as the winner of Willamette Week's "Best New Band in Portland" poll. They are also celebrating the release of their first full length album titled "BIG AND KIND" and recently recorded a live session at KEXP. Inspired by bad days, kindness, and taking up space, NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND makes rock existential and experiments with gender and sexuality through self-expression, siren-esque melodies, and reverberating instrumentals.
-
Luke Burbank: Hey there, Elena.
Elena Passarello: Hey, Luke. How's it going?
Luke Burbank: It is going fabulously this week, especially because we are about to play another round of Station Location Identification Examination. Are you ready?
Elena Passarello: Yes. I am so ready.
Luke Burbank: This is where I quiz Elena on a place in the United States where Live Wire's on the radio. She's got to guess where I'm talking about. This is a place that gets very snowy. The locals refer to the snow that they get in the area as champagne powder.
Elena Passarello: Oh, my.
Luke Burbank: Just the lightest fluffiest powder you can imagine.
Elena Passarello: So it sounds like both a moneyed place and a place with skiing. Okay. So I've narrowed it down to three states.
Luke Burbank: Okay.
Luke Burbank: It has about 150 natural hot springs.
Elena Passarello: That did not help at all.
Luke Burbank: Okay. It's home to more Olympians than any other place in the U.S.. One out of every 136 individuals who compete as Olympians apparently live in this place. So it's got springs. It's in a snowy place. How might you how might you get to those springs? Maybe take a certain kind of maritime vessel?
Elena Passarello: This is Steamboat Springs.
Luke Burbank: It's Steamboat.
Elena Passarello: Springs.
Luke Burbank: Colorado.
Luke Burbank: Where we are on KRNC radio.
Elena Passarello: What a hint, Burbank. What a hiny.
Luke Burbank: I don't know if that's what the steamboat is even named for in the name. I just figured it might lead you in the right direction. So shout out to everybody listening in Steamboat Springs, Colorado. All right. Should we get to the show?
Elena Passarello: Let's do it.
Luke Burbank: All right. Take it away.
Elena Passarello: From PRX, it's Live Wire. This week, columnist and author R. Eric Thomas.
R. Eric Thomas: When I moved back, I started seeing a therapist and I was like, I need to have couples counseling. And he was like, with your husband? And I was like, no, I mean, the city of Baltimore.
Elena Passarello: And comedian Ian Karmel.
Ian Karmel: Arby's is a farm to table restaurant. It's a worst farm. And the table is bolted to the floor.
Elena Passarello: With music from NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND and our fabulous house band, I'm your announcer, Elena Passarello, and now the host of Live Wire, Luke Burbank.
Luke Burbank: Thank you so much, Elaina Passarello. Thanks to everyone tuning in to Live Wire from all over the country, including the fine folks in Steamboat Springs, Colorado. We have an exceptional show in store for you this week. Of course, we asked the audience a question. We asked our listeners, What's the most surprising difference between you and your partner that will make more sense as the show unfolds. We're going to hear those responses coming up. But first, of course, we have to kick things off with the best news we heard all week this. This is our little reminder at the top of the program there is some good news happening out there in the world occasionally, we just have to find it for you sometimes. Elena, what is the best news you've heard this week?
Elena Passarello: I don't know if this is going to be the best news for everybody, but have you ever been a part of a book club, Mr. Burbank?
Luke Burbank: I was in a book club for the graphic novel Watchmen. I think that was the one and only book club I've been in.
Elena Passarello: That's a good one. I've never been a part of one. But if I was a part of one, I think I'd want to be a part of this one. There's a Southern California book club that was started by Jerry Phalke, a filmmaker in Venice, and they only read one book and they've only been reading this book for 28 years and they just finished it. The book is Finnegans Wake. Do you know about this book?
Luke Burbank: I know that it's famously lengthy, correct?
Elena Passarello: Yes, it's 650 pages. It was written by James Joyce. I had a theory that no one had actually read Finnegans Wake. Now I stand corrected. But it's sort of written in a lot of different languages. There's some made up languages in it. One of the book club members describes some of the pages of Finnegans Wake as looking like complete typographical errors. So this group, this book club has been meeting for 28 years, and they only cover about two pages a session. And instead of doing that thing where they're like kind of doing like, literary interpretation or thinking about plot, because I mean, there is a plot, but like people aren't 100% sure where the novel is set or what any of the characters are like. It's that cryptic of a book. So this group instead, Fielkow says, he treats it more like performance art or like a hootenanny or like a choir. They read pages out loud. They open 30 different Wikipedia tabs and they just kind of like geek out together and not in a way that necessarily turns into scholarship. It just turns into this kind of artistic practice. One guy who joined 15 years ago when they were only about like 40 pages in, he drove like three hours roundtrip from San Diego to attend the book club because he said it's kind of hard finding people who will talk about this book with you.
Luke Burbank: I love this. This is a book club that I could actually be a part of, I think.
Elena Passarello: Listen to what this group did. They finished the book this month. And do you know what these people did upon finishing Finnegans Wake? They started right back over again.
Luke Burbank: That's great. My best news story takes us to Cumberland Township, Pennsylvania, where a woman named Chelsea Rambau has a farm, and she recently got a new pig for her farm. And by the way, I think this is the kind of farm where they raise animals to be, you know, sort of therapy animals for people to come in and spend time with and stuff. So this pig presumably was had a pretty good life in front of it, but it didn't know that because it kept burrowing under the fence and escaping from Chelsea's farm there in Cumberland Township. It happened like three times. And the final time this pig really got away, like got far away and they couldn't find it. And so she had to set up a Facebook page to try to find the pig. And the title for the Facebook page was Bring Kevin Bacon Home because the pig was named Kevin Bacon. And Chelsea was hoping to get some tips on any Kevin Bacon, the pig sightings around the area. And of course, because of the Internet, this made its way to the awareness of one actual Kevin Bacon. [Elena: Nice.] who was posting it on his socials, bringing Kevin Bacon home. And apparently it worked because somebody finally caught up with the pig Kevin Bacon. It took a couple of weeks. The pig Kevin Bacon had taken to just approaching people on the street and just getting food from them. And so when somebody figured out that this pig that was going around mooching food off of humans was the Kevin Bacon that was missing, they put a bunch of Benadryl in a sticky bun and he ate the sticky bun. He went to sleep from the Benadryl and they were able to load him into like a truck and get him back to the farm, which has now been getting so much attention that Chelsea says that this is going to help speed along their plans to turn the property into a free farm that is open to the public and that is specifically designed for adults and children who've struggled with PTSD, anxiety and depression to come visit the animals, including Kevin Bacon, the pig. So that right there, the safe return of one Kevin Bacon, thanks to the help from another Kevin Bacon. That's the best news that I heard all week. All right. Let's invite our first guest on over to the program. He is the bestselling author of Here for It: Or How to Save Your Soul in America. He's written for TV. He's an award winning playwright and he's the person behind the popular, Eric Reads the News column that was in Elle magazine for years. His latest book is Congratulations The Best is Over, and it examines what happens after someone gets what they thought was their happily ever after. This is our R. Eric Thomas, who joined us on stage at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon.
R. Eric Thomas: Hi.
Luke Burbank: Welcome.
R. Eric Thomas: Thank you. It's. I'm so excited to be here. I really love this show and I really love I really love Portland. I'm like, oh, this is my favorite thing.
Luke Burbank: Well, you're one of our favorite things. I was— I love this book so much. But for for folks that haven't gotten to familiarize themselves yet, I want to kind of set up the plot. So basically, you grew up in Baltimore?
R. Eric Thomas: I did.
Luke Burbank: Yeah. And it sounds like you grew up in a really loving family. You had a kind of a pretty good thing going. But also you write in this book that you had a toxic relationship with Baltimore. [Eric: Yeah.] What did Baltimore do to you?
R. Eric Thomas: Well, you know where to start. Okay. I went to my therapist. I went—so when I moved back, I started seeing a therapist and I was like, I need to have couples counseling. And he was like with, you know, your husband. And I was like, no me in the city of Baltimore. I'm like, I think it's one the place where you're from is always it knows all the ghosts, the people that you used to be. Right?
Luke Burbank: And that was it was a very knowing ground from the audience. Yeah.
R. Eric Thomas: I mean, like and that's like that—It never it never goes away. You never shake that off. There are places where I would pass and I'd be I remember things I had done or things that happened to me. And so there's all this like physical memory. And then also the city of Baltimore is always becoming they have changed the city motto like four times, right? Yeah. And it's currently the greatest city in America, which I was like, is this shade like? Yeah, but no offense, but whenever I tell people where I'm from, they either say I love Hairspray or love The Wire. So like, the greatest city we're overshooting here, you know? Yeah, that's like me saying I'm the greatest basketball player in America like.
Luke Burbank: They did name the bathrooms, though, at the museum for John Waters.
Luke Burbank: At.
Luke Burbank: His request.
R. Eric Thomas: That's pretty good. Yeah.
Luke Burbank: Would the greatest city in America not do that?
R. Eric Thomas: I mean.
Luke Burbank: No, they wouldn't.
R. Eric Thomas: That is greatness. You know, greatness has been has visited upon the city like a ghost seeing Scrooge. But like. Does it live there? I don't know. So I this was all the energy I was bringing back with me when I moved back. And I was like, Babe, this is not healthy. Like, you can't be like every morning, like, good morning, Baltimore. Yeah, I mean, fire. Steve Yeah. Oh, man. Is waffles from.
R. Eric Thomas: Hairspray.
R. Eric Thomas: Okay, well.
Luke Burbank: So the kind of the the arc of this book is you're. You're living in Philadelphia for a while. You're kind of like looking to find yourself and figure out what you are artistically interested in and stuff. And there's a moment where you're working at the Hard Rock Cafe and you're still kind of finding your artistic voice. What is it like working at the Hard Rock Cafe while still trying to find one's artistic voice?
R. Eric Thomas: You know, I have to say, it was an eye opening experience. I worked there for 6 or 7 years and at first it was just like a money job and I didn't know what I was doing. And I would come home every day, like covered in like barbecue sauce and, you know, like bits of the jumbo combo, you know? But I got I like one, I like I grew up evangelical. And so I never listened to, like, the devil's music. And so I'd be like at the hard rock hearing the devil's music, and I'd be like, Oh, this is a total Oh, this isn't so bad. You know? I discover that all the devil's music was playing on every car and Jeep commercial that I'd ever heard, right? That's how I get So, you know, say things like, Do you want to drive a Ford? And I was like, right in my server book, like little snatches of plays and story. Some of those stories started off in the in like a barbecue sauce steam server book and ended up ten years later in in Your Hand, which is amazing to me. So it's like, oh.
Elena Passarello: Yeah, fantastic.
R. Eric Thomas: We're talking to R. Eric Thomas now, this isn't in the book, but I heard you mention it during something else that you were talking about, and it really intrigued me. You were saying that during this period of time you weren't I don't think you were at Hard Rock Cafe or a different restaurant, but you heard that Patti LaBelle liked to eat there and you made it a personal mission. Oh, yeah. To be there when Miss Patti LaBelle was.
R. Eric Thomas: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Miss Patti LaBelle. Yeah. So this was when I was I was I was living in Philly and I had not wanted to move to Philly either. I have a weird relationship with cities like we've talked about this before. Maybe it's me, but I don't think so. I just can't see how it could be. And so I didn't want to move to Philly. I didn't like Philly. I remember I'd seen the movie Philadelphia. I was like, and you know, because the city looks post-apocalyptic, I got to say, like in that movie, it's better now. But anyway, but one Shining North star for me was Patti LaBelle liked live there to live in the main line in Philadelphia. And she liked to go to this one restaurant called Pod. And I was like, I'm going to work. I pod one day and then I got a job at Pod. And then she came in on my day off and on. Oh, no, no, don't, don't. Don't test me. Patti LaBelle. Don't be playing games with me. So the pastry chef Danielle called me on my patio phone. There's one phone in my house. Attached to the wall and things. New attitude. And she's like, Get here right now. And I ran. And I took this picture with Patti LaBelle. And one of the funniest things she goes to, this is this upscale sushi fusion restaurant. And she would order like a salad with balsamic vinaigrette. And I'm like, perfect. That's all you need. That's all you need. I love her. So it was the best. So that's what that's called, Having a dream. Yeah. Well.
Luke Burbank: You also met someone almost as important as Patti LaBelle in Philadelphia, which was your future and now husband, David. I want to talk about that after this quick break. This is live wire from Pyrex. We're talking to our Eric Thomas about his new book. Congratulations. The Best is Over. We've got to take a quick break. We'll be back in just a moment. Stay with us. Welcome back to livewire from PR x this week coming to you from the Alberta Rose Theater right here in Portland, Oregon. I'm Luke Burbank here with Atlanta pastor. We're talking to our Eric Thomas about his new book. Congratulations. The best is over. Okay. So you you you met Miss Patti LaBelle, but you also met your future husband, David, who when he proposed to you, you write in this book. He did so when you all were on a hike. Yeah. Which was like, probably second. Your second pick.
Luke Burbank: From where he.
Luke Burbank: Proposed. Where were you hoping he would propose?
R. Eric Thomas: Well, I was hoping that he would propose in the place where everything has happened to me. Pod, The sushi restaurant. The same one? Yeah. No, I really wanted even though they had fired me and I was like I was like, I don't care. I'll go back. I still have my Cobra paperwork. I'll be like, No. But I always imagined. So my husband, David, he's from he's from this area. He grew up in Sherwood and like, he's an outdoor cat. He loves he loves gardening. He worked on a farm in Japan for years. He is an Eagle Scout. I am an indoor cat. And so my choice, I was like, it will be a cute thing if we get engaged by like you go to one of those sushi bars where they rotate around on the conveyor belt and we can just put the ring in one of them. One of the little mochi, right? Yeah, I know, right?
Elena Passarello: Very cute. Yes.
R. Eric Thomas: You love this. Everyone loves this. And then you're like, Pick that maki. You're like, I don't want to California roll there. And they're like, I think you should have one. And there's a video of Godzilla playing and you're like, Ahhhh. He was like, But what if we go to Bend, Oregon? And I was like, okay. And hike up Black Butte. Lots of cheers for people who have no taste and. I'm just kidding. No, because I was like, we got to fly across the country and then hike up this mountain. And he's like, Oh, it's not a mountain. It's a stratovolcano. And I was like, okay, I'm not even worth a mountain. Like, we got to go to Everest. But we went to Bend and we hiked over this mountain. He this Stratovolcano And.
Luke Burbank: Did you have an inkling that something was up?
R. Eric Thomas: Oh yeah. We had already decided. We knew. Yeah, we talked about it. I had had I had the Facebook post pre-written like I was very.
Luke Burbank: You knew you were going up this volcano to get proposed to.
R. Eric Thomas: Yeah. Or get thrown in I don't know, you know. And but to get to the top and he had written some words for both of us, three to each other. And then we built a cairn. And he explained to me what a cairn is, and he said it was a place where people return to when they lose their way or when something changes in their path. And I hate like I started to sob on that mountain because I had gone I was 35 years old and I had been on 9 million terrible dates. And I just didn't think that there was that this was in the cards for me. And not only was it in the cards, but this person from across the country traveled across this lands, found me, brought me back, dragged me up a stratovolcano to prove to me that I was loved. And I. I cried so hard, I was like, we got to tell those those hikers that I'm not being broken up with like. I was a really worried. I was embarrassed. Oh, man.
Luke Burbank: We are talking to our R. Eric Thomas about his new book. Congratulations, The Best is Over. The book is so funny. But also, you know, the cover of the book is an upside down cupcake. [Eric: Yeah.] which is a reference to a kind of a time in your life where you got really into baking cupcakes, probably because you were also dealing with some depression. And I'm curious, I mean, I feel like it's this book is written, it's so funny, but it's also written for people that could be having a real cupcake week. Yeah, as it were. What was that period like for you?
R. Eric Thomas: It was in my early no, I would say early 20s. I was like fully 29. But that's early. Yeah, you could.
Luke Burbank: It was it was like January for 29 years.
R. Eric Thomas: The first many years, you know, it can still happen for me. You know, the loss of youth was still across my face. And I just I wasn't I wasn't making any progress creatively, professionally, romantically. I was in this very low period, which is sort of sometimes what your early, early to late middle 20s is. And sometimes it's your 30s or your photos. It's it's life. And I had gone through a friend breakup and I just started. I didn't I just wanted a cupcake. Oh, I was like, you can't just, like make one cupcake. So I made it doesn't cupcakes. And I kept making cupcakes because it made me happy. And I was living with this this guy, E.J., who was a bodybuilder, and he was like counting macros. And I'm like, covering the kitchen with buttercream icing. Oh, he was so hot. And, um. And I was like that. I was like, Am I going through something? And everybody who knew it was like, Are you going through something? You make seven cakes a week and they're not good. But sometimes you just you're, you go through these cupcake days. And I just think that even, you know, ultimately it's a book about sort of approaching your cupcake days and your 20 or 30 or 40 years or 50s or 70s coming having this period where you think, is it over for me? Is is this done? Did I miss it? Did I miss the party making your own party and then figuring out what's next? You know.
Luke Burbank: I feel like a theme that comes up in this book, along with all the humor, is the middle ness of life, which is the worst part. You know, it's like when my therapist or talk about it like being in a swimming pool but in the middle of pool and you don't know how deep it is.
R. Eric Thomas: Oh, yeah.
Luke Burbank: You know, we know what clinging to the side is. We know it. Be mad at someone is we know a loving someone is. We know what good and bad feels like. All the middle stuff is really terrifying at times. How have you or have you, I guess through your life and through the writing of this book and your relationship with your husband found a way to be in those middle times and spaces.
R. Eric Thomas: I'd like to phone a friend and can we get my therapist so I know. You know, I think one of the things that came out of this book and the experience of writing this book and also really talking about it afterwards is sort of a secondary metaphor. At the end of the book, we we get a house and there's a huge garden, and I have a typically hard time in the garden. Just maybe it's me. But I don't think so. But what I think about the middle ness, I feel like I always felt like there was a shoe about to drop. And now I think of the middle as this garden where I'm planting seeds and some seeds. I'm going to get to see Sprout and some seeds or annuals in some seeds are perennials and some seeds are going to outlive me. And that used to really scare me because I don't want to not be here. And the middle is about saying goodbye to so many things and also saying hello to some things that you know are coming. You don't want to. There was a speech I heard once that talked about how when you sit at the base of a tree, you're not at the bottom of it. You're you're in the middle of the tree. You're being held by the tree because the root system is sometimes as big or bigger than the canopy. And I think about I think about life like that as this this this root system, this fertile place, this compost space. But then you turn it and it becomes something fertile and beautiful, and you put it on the ground and up pops the tulips up pops this thing that you're like, I don't think I planted that. But you planted. A pops of weed. So, yeah, that's how I think about the middle now. And I have a choice but to be here. But I'm going to farm.
Luke Burbank: That is so much more useful of an answer than I got from my therapist.
Unidentified: I mean, I tell you, honest, it's much better than a pool.I paid a lot of.
Luke Burbank: Money over the years to hear a less useful answer than what you just gave.
Luke Burbank: Right.
Luke Burbank: Here on Live Wire. That's R. Eric Thomas here on the show. All right. All right. As we have been talking about, you wrote about your cupcake days where you were getting really into baking. Mm hmm. Maybe even to into baking, although that's a fairly tame hobby to pick up. Turns out that there are some much stranger hobbies out there enjoyed by some of the most famous people in the world. Mm hmm. And we wanted to sort of quiz you on some of these strange hobbies that famous people have. Would you like to participate?
R. Eric Thomas: Yes. Yes. Okay.
Luke Burbank: Starting with Beyonce.
R. Eric Thomas: Oh, I know.
Luke Burbank: Which one of these is a real hobby? Mm hmm. Of Beyonce. Is it bedazzling things?
R. Eric Thomas: Uh huh.
Luke Burbank: Is it beekeeping?
R. Eric Thomas: Mm hmm.
Luke Burbank: Or is it making balloon animals?
R. Eric Thomas: Oh, that's interesting. Okay. So I think bedazzling is J.Lo, so. All right. All right.
Luke Burbank: Through the process of elimination, you've eliminated.
R. Eric Thomas: Eliminated one. Yeah. Beekeeping. Yeah. Oh, that's. I mean, it would be really smart of her to do that. I'm going to go balloon animals.
Elena Passarello: I wish she did, though. I don't really like what shapes would she make?
R. Eric Thomas: Oh, gosh. Like little unicorns. Look, she's like a unicorn. Like she. Everything would look like a dog, but she'd be like, this. Is it going to be like, okay? Yeah.
Luke Burbank: It turns out it's beekeeping.
R. Eric Thomas: Get out of here. Yeah. Oh, bravo.
Luke Burbank: It's very on. Brand. Yes.
Luke Burbank: Yeah.
Luke Burbank: Yeah. As Elena said in rehearsal, it's a little on the nose.
Elena Passarello: Yeah.
Luke Burbank: So it turns out a couple of her kids have allergies, and she had found out that this honey. So she got two hives at her house because the honey is good for her kids allergies.
R. Eric Thomas: I love that. I also love the Beyonce is not heard of going to Whole Foods, you know, or like a farmer's market. She's like, we need local honey. Well, while we got to set up three acres of bees. Right. But she's also saving the world, right?
Luke Burbank: Yeah, that's right. All right. How about Rod Stewart?
R. Eric Thomas: Oh, gosh.
Luke Burbank: Is Rod Stewart's hobby puppetry? Building model railways or an endurance kind of sport where they drop a ferret into your trousers and you have to see how long you can stand it. It's called ferret legging. I believe it's big in the U.K. Which one of these three things is a hobby that Sir Rod Stewart participates in?
R. Eric Thomas: I'm really so mad if it's ferret legging. I mean, it feels. That feels very complex. Yeah, I I'm going to go with option B model train.
Luke Burbank: You're going to be absolutely right. Building model railways. That's right. He is apparently obsessed to the point where Rod Stewart was once on the cover of Railway Modeler magazine, which he said meant more to him than being on the cover of Rolling Stone. Yes. Yes.
Elena Passarello: I have that cover framed in my office at work.
Luke Burbank: No, wait. Are you serious?
Elena Passarello: You look so happy. I look at it when I'm having a bad day. I to remind myself that people can be happy. It's really. He's found his passion.
R. Eric Thomas: I love that.
Luke Burbank: All right. How about Penelope Cruz? Oh, the great actor Penelope Cruz is Penelope's hobby. Treasure hunting, collecting coat hangers or making bookmarks?
R. Eric Thomas: You know what? I think that she is a treasure hunter. I think she's trying to spelunking into a cave and find the heart of the ocean.
Luke Burbank: She is hunting for treasure, but she finds it in coat hangers.
R. Eric Thomas: Oh, she goes the dry cleaners?
Luke Burbank: She apparently loves to collect coat hangers, especially nonmetal ones, and has a collection of over 500 coat hangers. Can you imagine going to Penelope Cruz house and she's like, Can I show you my coat hangers?
R. Eric Thomas: I called. I'd call the police. I know. I just like I love one of the most talented people and brilliant people. Oscar winner should be a two time Oscar winner, in my opinion. And she's like, oh, man, we got to stop by Target on the way home. And I'm fiending Javier. Are rich people bored?
Luke Burbank: Yes. I believe they are. I will tell you a time when one will never be bored when you are reading R. Eric Thomas's new book, Congratulations, The Best is Over. And thank you so much.
R. Eric Thomas: Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you very.
Luke Burbank: That was R. Eric Thomas right here on Live Wire. His new book is Congratulations, The Best is Over and it's out and available now. This is Live Wire. Of course, each week we like to ask our listeners a question related to the program. This week we asked, what's the most surprising difference between you and your partner? Elena has been collecting up those responses. What are you seeing?
Elena Passarello: Oh, these are great. And a surprising amount of them involve peanut butter. Like this one from Lilly. Lilly says, I love peanut butter. If something has peanut butter in it, I'm eating it, but my partner is severely allergic to it. We've been together for four years now, and I've just had to cut peanut butter out of my life and it's been hard. I even thought about not pursuing it when I found this out years ago. But we're still happy together without peanut butter.
Luke Burbank: Can't they have, like, some kind of peanut butter chamber, some sort of maybe hermetically sealed closet where Lily can go and have a scoop of peanut butter?
Elena Passarello: A peanut butter panic room.
Luke Burbank: Right. You know.
Elena Passarello: I've tried to think with my peanut butter would be like something that would make me consider not being with someone. And I think it would be a cat allergy.
Luke Burbank: Mine would be if they had a pizza allergy. Luckily, I don't think that that's very common. So I should be should be okay going forward. What's something else that marks a real difference between one of our listeners and their partner?
Elena Passarello: Here's a cryptic one from Kate. Kate says, Our views on the meaning of Billy Joel's The Piano Man. The debates have been raging for six years. I'm right and he's wrong. What could they possibly be debating about? Is he good at his job?
Luke Burbank: Is it not really 5:00 on a Saturday?
Elena Passarello: Please, Kate, let us know. Now, I want to hear this debate that you're right about Kate.
Luke Burbank: It doesn't seem like a song that there would be that many interpretations. In fact, I would say maybe a critical look at the song would say. It's pretty obvious. It's really laid right out there. It's a this is not a song that really trades in subtlety. I don't know what's up for interpretation.
Elena Passarello: It's a declarative song, although I did think that the line when I was a younger man's clothes was when I wandered under men's clothes for a long time when I was a kid.
Luke Burbank: All right. One more surprising difference between one of our listeners and their partner.
Elena Passarello: Here's one from Max. Max says, My partner believes in movie sequels. She will watch a sequel with enthusiasm, respect, but I firmly believe a sequel is never better than the original Godfather to Max.
Luke Burbank: Well, that's the that's the sort of like, recognized rebuttal to that argument, right? Godfather two.
Elena Passarello: Yeah. And Babe Pig in the city. Just kidding. That movie stinks. Terrifying movie. [Luke: Really.] Max says that they have sat through countless bad sequels for their partner, even all ten Fast and the Furious movies. Wow. That is a commitment.
Luke Burbank: It's sort of the piano man of movies. I think you can really just catch it right from the trailer. You've pretty much got the whole plot. So. All right. Thanks to everyone who sent in responses to our listener question. We'll have another one for next week's show coming up in just a bit. In the meantime, our next guest is an Emmy nominated stand up comedian, actor and former co-head writer for The Late Late Show with James Corden. He's performed on Conan, Comedy Central and Netflix, his debut comedy album, 9.2 on Pitchfork, which I think is a spectacular name for a comedy album. Ian Kamal's comedy special was released back in 2015 to rave reviews. He's also one of the hosts of the great weekly podcast, All Fantasy, Everything. This is Ian Karmel, recorded at our show at Show Bar in Portland, Oregon. Take a listen.
Ian Karmel: I am a proud son of Portland, Oregon. I'm a proud son of Portland, Oregon. Thank you. Yeah, I'm a I'm a 39 year old aging millennial from Portland, Oregon. And when I say that, you know everything you need to know about me and you think you know exactly what kind of movies I like, you know what kind of music I listen to. You know exactly what kind of restaurants I like to eat at. I will only eat at a restaurant if they proudly say that they are farm to table. That's it. You tell. Yeah. I will only eat in a restaurant if they say that they're farm to table. Which is a very silly thing for a restaurant to say because that's where they grow food and that's what you eat it off of at every restaurant. Arby's is a farm to table restaurant. It's a worst farm. And the table is bolted to the floor, but it is still a farm to table. When I say farm to table. I specifically mean a farm that is owned by a lovely lesbian couple who left finance and bought goats. And when I say table, I mean a door that used to be on a church. That they've turned on to its side. And I sit around it with six other couples who I didn't arrive with. And we all talk about the same three A24 movies all night. Farm to table. What a silly thing to say. Farm to table is just a farm to table restaurant. This is farm to table. So when I sit down it's but to seat and then eyes command you right its eyes. The man you ordered away to wait for the chef Chef to pan. Pan to plate. Is that right? Plate the table. Food for the fork. Fork to mouth. Fork. And let's just say I have to go to the bathroom and do. But the seat. Where is that? Over there. I imagine I'm 39 and I don't I don't have any kids. I'm 39 with no kids, which means I have a lot of free time. I have too much free time. And I'm starting to worry me because I could feel myself starting to get in the queue and on. Yeah. I could feel it happening. I feel like first I looked into it was like, What is this? This is really silly. This is stupid. Well. Here's why John f Kennedy jr is what he did. Why? Why are you stuck? I'm not like i like the Da Vinci code too much to know I couldn't fall for Cunanan. You know what I mean? Like, I had to pick up a hobby. I had to get into smoking meat just to make sure it didn't happen. I got into smoking meat because I had to get a hobby and smoking meat and Q and on are actually pretty similar. You end up watching a lot of 90 minute YouTube videos where it's just a sweaty guy in Kentucky talking right into the camera. I got into barbecue, and that's what I. I got married last year. I got married last year. Thank you. I think I'm a good husband. I think I'm a good husband in atypical ways, though. I try to go above, above and beyond the standard call of duty. Like my wife is a big Taylor Swift fan. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So when Taylor Swift puts out new music, I will make sure to start a fight where I'm absolutely at fault so she can properly enjoy Taylor Swift's music. Because you can't really listen to Taylor Swift as if everything is going great at home. You know what I mean? But you can. But it just doesn't hit, right? You know what I mean? Like Taylor Swift, when you're in a fight, it's like drinking Bordeaux in Bordeaux. And I want my wife to have that experience. I Yeah, I lost 180 pounds during the during the pandemic. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Very good for my blood pressure. Very confusing for my standup comedy career. I used to be able to come up here and say ham sandwich, and I would get a standing ovation. Now I'm too hot. Yeah. Yeah. Too hot to do. Stand up now. I'm not relatable. Nobody can relate to my lifestyle. You know what I mean? All I'm ever doing is going to the beach and leasing jeeps. Nobody wants to hear about that.
Ian Karmel: I'm Hot now. It's.
Ian Karmel: No. Honestly, my appearance didn't change that much. When I lost weight, it really didn't like. Before I lost weight, I looked like I owned a deli. And now I look like I own the worst deli. I should tell you that losing weight is very easy. A lot of people ask how I did it. Losing weight is very, very simple. It's easy. All you have to do is overcome everything in society. Millions and millions of years of genetic evolution based on the idea of scarcity. And then you don't eat after eight and that's it. That's it. I should have known it was time to lose weight because when I would get on fights on Twitter with people or X, when I would get on fights online with people, they wouldn't even insult me anymore. You know what I mean? They wouldn't even, like, insult my weight. There was a point when they were like, Oh, shut up, fatso. I eventually gained so much weight that, like, when I would say something like, Jared Kushner looks like a banana Republic vampire, you know, like. Some guy with like Oakleys an American flag hat would comment. You have high blood pressure. Good looking out. Thank you. Okay. Yeah, right. I started. I didn't go to the doctor when I was heavier. I didn't go to the doctor because it's scary to go to the doctor when you're when you're fat. It's scary. It's hard to do if when you go to the doctor, when you're fat, the doctor will just blame it on you being fat. No matter what's wrong with you. They will blame it on you being fat. It doesn't. You could walk into the doctor with a samurai sword sticking out of your torso and the doctor will be like, We've talked about this so many times, you have to lose some weight. If you go to the top. When you're fat, you have asthma, you go to the doctor. He's like, it's cheeseburger fumes. You've been huffing too many cheeseburgers. Going to the doctor is hard in general, even if you're not fat, going to the doctor is hard. Because sometimes you go to the doctor and you talk yourself into it. You're like, All right, this thing's been bothering me for a while. I've been putting it off. But I got to go. It's not going away. I got to go. You make the appointment, and nine months later, when your appointment comes up. You go to the doctor and you tell them what's wrong. And the doctor is like.
Ian Karmel: Huh?
Ian Karmel: That's weird. I don't know what that is. Sorry. Thanks for coming in. That should be illegal. That should be against the law. If the doctor doesn't know what's wrong with you, they should have to give you their jacket. You get that jacket now? That's mine. Give me that jacket. I'm not leaving here empty handed. That's fine. Now, all it takes to be a doctor is not knowing. I can do that. Give me that thing. I'm not going. Your client list like that. All right. Just go out to the waiting room. We don't know. We don't know. Bodies are a mystery science, so I have so far to go. Eat more salt, eat less salt. Walk more, walk less, walk while you're adding salt. Get out of here, everybody. Have a great day. I got a tee time. I know. When they got rid of the sticker incentive program at the doctor run when you were a kid and you go to the doctor and they give you a sticker afterwards, how come that goes away? Just because we're grown up? I don't like that. I didn't consent to that at all. I want a sticker. It's easier for kids to go to the doctor. Nothing's wrong with kids when you're a kid. All that happens when you go to the doctor is they're like, Boy, you're tall. Let's look at your penis. Now. All right, here's the stick. Go back to the waiting room and play with this weird toy. What was that? Her? It was only ever at the doctor. And if you're just listening to this, you know the toy I'm talking about. Think of the toy that the only at the doctor. That toy. What was it was like Gen Z could complain about a lot of things. Climate change, you know, the economy, like all that stuff. But they have way better options. When they're in the waiting room with the doctor. They can play their Nintendo switch or anything like that. All we had was this weird, I'm assuming Nordic socialist toy. That encourage object permanence learning on something.
Ian Karmel: I'm Ian Karmel. Thank you for your time.
Luke Burbank: That was Ian Karmel right here on Live Wire. I'm Luke Burbank. That's Elena Passarello right over there. We've got to take a very quick break, but don't go anywhere. When we get back, we will hear some music from NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND. Welcome back to Live Wire from PRX. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. Okay, before we get to our musical guest this week, a little preview of next week's show. We are going to be talking to the writer and podcaster Dana Schwartz about her new book, Immortality: A Love Story. It's described as a YA book that's young adult, but I've read it. And even middle aged adults like me can enjoy. It's got everything but history, romance. We're also going to talk about Dana's podcast, Noble Blood, which is really an interesting listen as well. Then we're going to talk to the artist and writer Jenny Odell about her latest book, Saving Time: Discovering a Life Beyond the Clock. And then we will get some music from Black Belt Eagle Scout. Her latest album is titled The Land, The Water, and The Sky. It's inspired by her life in the Pacific Northwest. And she's just an incredible musician. Plus, we are going to be getting your response to our audience question for next week's show. Elena, What are we asking the Live Wire listeners?
Elena Passarello: We would like you to please tell us about your favorite way to quote unquote, waste time?
Luke Burbank: Now, the waste is in quotation marks, Elena. Because, I mean, wasting time is. That's sort of subjective, right? You know, some person's just staring into the middle distance could be restorative for them. And to someone else, that might seem like wasting time. We don't want to put any judgment around how people are spending their time, which is why we put it in quotes.
Elena Passarello: Gotcha. Yeah. Any time spent doing something that you enjoy is time well-spent.
Luke Burbank: Exactly. So if you have a response, a favorite way to quote unquote, waste time. Hit us up on Facebook or Twitter. We still refuse to call it X. We're also at Live wire Radio in most places where social media happens. This is Live Wire from PRX. Our musical guest this week was formed to impress someone who ended up never showing up for the concert in question. That is okay, though, because it turns out this band impressed tons of other people instead, even winning the Portland's best new band competition. Take a listen to NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND recorded at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon.
NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND: Thank you so much.
Luke Burbank: Welcome to the show.
NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND: Hey, how's it going?
Luke Burbank: Great. You've got some fans here.
Luke Burbank: Yeah.
NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND: Thank you so much.
Luke Burbank: Excited you're here. Can you tell us a little about the song we're going to hear?
NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND: Yeah. So we're going to be playing the like, hit single from our record, Big and Kind. And this song, I think is just like, really indicative of like, what we're kind of trying to go for the whole thing. Kindness doesn't mean shrinking yourself. It can mean taking up more space. Speaking up for yourself, talking about your boundaries, being clear about them. Sometimes it brings us out of our comfort zone a little bit. Sometimes you have to speak up when it's uncomfortable. Thank you.
[NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND plays]
Luke Burbank: That was NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND recorded at the Alberta Rose Theater. Their latest album, Big and Kind, is out now. That is going to do it for this week's episode of Live Wire. A huge thanks to our guests R. Eric Thomas, Ian Karmel and NONBINARY GIRLFRIEND.
Luke Burbank: Laura Hadden is our executive producer. Heather De Michelle is our executive director and our producer and editor is Melanie Sevchenko. Molly Pettit is our technical director and our How Sound Is by D. Neil Blake. Tre Hester is our assistant editor and our marketing and production manager is Karen Pan. Rosa Garcia is our operations associate. Jackie Ibarra is our production fellow and Ant Diaz is our intern. Our house band is Ethan Fox Tucker, Sam Tucker, Ayal Alves and A Walker Spring who also composes our music. This episode was mixed by Molly Pettit and Tre Hester.
Luke Burbank: Additional funding provided by the James F and Marian L Miller Foundation Live Wire was created by Robin Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff. This week we would like to thank member Morris Malakoff of Vancouver, Washington for more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast. Head on over to live wire radio.org. I'm Luke Burbank for Elaina Passaro and the whole live wire crew. Thank you for listening and we will see you next week.
- PRX -
