Episode 697
"Best of 2025 Special" with Paul F. Tompkins, Danez Smith, Riki Lindhome, and more
This "Best of 2025" special episode features some of Live Wire's favorite moments of the year: host Luke Burbank interviews an AI chatbot version of journalist Evan Ratliff; comedian Paul F. Tompkins receives a glitter bomb to celebrate his 7th appearance; authors Ira Madison III and Chuck Klosterman face-off in a quiz about Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs; musical comedian Riki Lindhome parodies The Sound of Music with her song So Long, Farewell, bidding adieu to another year... plus much more!
Evan Ratliff
Journalist and Shell Game Host
Evan Ratliff is an award-winning investigative journalist, bestselling author, and podcast host. He’s the author of The Mastermind: A True Story of Murder, Empire, and a New Kind of Crime Lord; the writer and host of the hit podcasts Shell Game and Persona: The French Deception; and the cofounder of The Atavist Magazine, Pop-Up Magazine, and the Longform Podcast. As a writer, he’s a two-time National Magazine Award finalist. As an editor and producer, he’s a two-time Emmy nominee and National Magazine Award winner.
Ira Madison III
Cultural Critic and Co-Host of Keep It
Ira Madison III is the host of Crooked Media’s pop culture podcast Keep It. His television credits include Uncoupled, Q-Force, Nikki Fre$h, and So Help Me Todd. He has written for GQ, New York magazine, Interview, MTV News, and Cosmopolitan, among other publications. Nylon named him one of the “most reliably hilarious and incisive cultural critics writing now.” He has appeared on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, Watch What Happens Live, The Wendy Williams Show, and the second season of Netflix drama You. He lives in New York City.
Paul F. Tompkins
Comedian, Actor, and Writer
Paul F. Tompkins is a comedian, actor, and writer who the Los Angeles Times describes as "a mix of Mark Twain, old-timey radio entertainer and vaudeville actor for the internet age." He's appeared on over two hundred episodes of Comedy Bang! Bang! and hosts popular podcasts including Threedom, The Neighborhood Listen, and Spontaneanation. An Emmy-nominated writer on Mr. Show, Tompkins also hosted TV shows like Best Week Ever and voiced Mr. Peanutbutter on the Netflix animated series Bojack Horseman. In his long-running live show Varietopia, he blends stand-up, character work, and improvisation, always in his signature suit and tie.
Danez Smith
Spellbinding Poet and Performer
Danez Smith is the author of three previous poetry collections, including Homie, a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award, and Don’t Call Us Dead, winner of the Forward Prize for Best Collection and a finalist for the National Book Award. Danez's poetry and prose has been featured in Vanity Fair, The New York Times, The New Yorker, GQ, Best American Poetry, and on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert. Their latest collection, Bluff, was written after two years of artistic silence (during which the world came to a halt due to the COVID-19 pandemic and Minneapolis became the epicenter of protest following the murder of George Floyd) and reckons with their role and responsibility as a poet and with their hometown of the Twin Cities.
Kari Ferrell
Writer, Activist, and Reformed “Hipster Grifter”
Kari Ferrell is a producer, writer, speaker, activist, and creator whose work is centered around prison reform and mental health. Her production company, Without Wax, is dedicated to uplifting and telling other stories from Women of Color, and she‘s working with Kaling International on a scripted show based on her life. Kari also supports various organizations like Second Chance Studios, Books Through Bars, the ACLU, and other advocacy groups. She lives in Brooklyn with her pup and her partner.
Kuinka
Indie Folk Band
Described by NPR Music as joyous folk pop, Kuinka "laces modern folk and Americana with an electronic jolt, waltzing along the grooved edges of dream-pop, synth-pop, and Brooklyn’s mid-aughts guitar-rock revival" (Vanyaland). Their genre-defying music features several different lead singers, four-part harmony, and eclectic instrumentation. For all of their sonic experimentation, the Seattle group's songs and live shows are linked by an infectious energy that remains present in everything they do.
Riki Lindhome
Actress, Comedian, and Musician
Riki Lindhome is an actress, comedian, and musician. A former member of the Los Angeles-based experimental theater group The Actors’ Gang, she made her film debut in Clint Eastwood’s Million Dollar Baby and has appeared in Hell Baby, Last House on the Left, The Lego Batman Movie, Knives Out and more, as well as a long list of TV shows including The Big Bang Theory, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, HBO’s Enlightened, Duncanville, The Muppets Mayhem and Netflix’s Wednesday. Lindhome also created and starred in the Comedy Central period sitcom Another Period with Natasha Leggero. In 2007, she formed Garfunkel and Oates with actress Kate Micucci. They wrote, produced, and starred in an eponymous television series on IFC, which aired for one season in 2014. Their 2016 comedy special Garfunkel and Oates: Trying to Be Special was nominated for a Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Original Music and Lyrics. Lindhome is currently writing the songs for the Broadway adaptation of the movie Drop Dead Gorgeous following the production’s premiere at the 2024 Edinburgh Fringe Festival.
Show Notes
Best News
Elena’s story: “Islands restored to former paradise after rats removed”
Luke’s story: “88-year-old Meijer cashier overwhelmed by sudden $1.7 million gift”
Evan Ratliff
Evan gives us a live, unscripted demonstration of an AI model of himself—the creation of which is fully documented in his celebrated podcast, Shell Game.
Ira Madison III
Ira is host of the pop-culture podcast Keep It. His newest collection of essays is Pure, Innocent Fun.
Ira and Luke discuss a hot of pop culture references including:
Chris Martin of Coldplay
Sex, Drugs and Cocopuffs by Chuck Closterman
Liz Phair’s 1993 album Exile in Guyville as a conversation with The Rolling Stones’ 1972 album Exile on Main St.
Roger Ebert’s show At the Movies, first with co-host Gene Siskel, then with Richard Roper. Luke references this outtake footage.
Film directors Martin Scorsese and Paul Thomas Anderson
Hulu reality TV show The Traitors
Taylor Sheridan, co-creator of the TV show Yellowstone
Ira’s reading talks through the “Disney Renaissance”:
The Little Mermaid (1989), featuring musical number “Under The Sea,” composed by Alan Menken with lyrics by Howard Ashman. The duo went on to compose/write for Little Shop of Horrors and Beauty and the Beast (1991).
Not of the renaissance, but worthy of note: The Emperor's New Groove (2000), and the Disney Channel spinoff series, The Emperor's New School.
Also not of the Renaissance, but an Academy Award winner: The Rescuers (1977)
Ira talks through Academy lore, mentioning Composer Stephen Sondheim, and luminaries Shirley MacLaine and Liza Minnelli.
Ira references Barbara Streisand, her memoir My Name is Barbara, and author Jonathan Franzen.
Aladdin (1992) with musical number “A Whole New World” and lyricist Tim Rice.
The Lion King (1994) scored by Hans Zimmer. Musical number “Can You Feel the Love Tonight” composed by Elton John with lyrics by Tim Rice.
Pocahontas () Musician Gwen Stefani's.
The Hunchback of Notre Dame, with the songs “Topsy Turvy,” “Learning the Word,” and “Sanctuary.”
Hercules (1997) with the song “Go the Distance.”
Mulan (1998) with a credits song by Christina Aguilera.
Tarzan (1991) featuring Phil Collins' “You'll Be in My Heart.”
Paul F. Tompkins
Paul and Luke hit on a broad range of pop culture references including: singer Olivia Rodrigo, movie The Ballad of Buster Scruggs (2018) and comedian Vinny Thomas.
We hear a clip from the podcast Handsome, hosted by comedians Tig Notaro, Fortune Feimster, and Mae Martin.
Danez Smith
Danez shares from their latest book, Bluff.
Danez references Carl Phillips’ essay “Silence” from the book, My Trade Is Mystery.
Danez talks about writing poetry in the context of social upheaval and oppression, especially highlighting the impact of the murders of George Floyd and Mike Brown. They lean on the work of Black American poets and activists, such as June Jordan, Jammes Baldwin, and Langston Hughes and Nikki Giovanni.
Danez references their poem, “Waiting On You to Die So I Can Be Myself.”
They read their poem, “Anti Poetica.”
Kari Ferrell
Luke and Kari discuss Kari’s new book, You’ll Never Believe Me, in which she unpacks her stint as the infamous “hipster grifter” and her subsequent launch into advocacy work.
Kuinka
Perform "Living Room Floor” from their album Shiny Little Corners.
Riki Lindhome
Sings a song off her new album, No Worries if Not titled “So Long Farewell,” a breakup anthem on behalf of the Baroness Schraeder from The Sound of Music (1965).
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Elena Passarello: From PRX, it's... Live Wire! This week, our favorite moments of the year, with writers Evan Ratliff,
Evan Ratliff (AI Chatbot): Usually I'm just lurking in the background, making awkward phone calls, or getting mistaken for someone's existential crisis…
Elena Passarello: Kari Ferrell, Chuck Klosterman, and Ira Madison III. Plus, poet Danez Smith and comedian Paul F. Tompkins.
Paul F. Tompkins: I'm not a veteran, but I do steal valor. [Luke: Yes.]
Elena Passarello: With music from Riki Lindhome and Kuinka. I'm your announcer, Elena Passarello. And now, the host of Live Wire, Luke Burbank!
Luke Burbank: Thank you so much, Elena. Thank you everyone for tuning in from all over the country. We've got a fun end of the year show for you this week. We thought it would be fitting to look back on some of our very favorite moments from 2025 with some of our favorite guests. First though, we got to kick things off, the way that we like to each week, with the best news we heard all year. This right here is our little reminder that there was some good news that happened during 2025. Just had to look for it. We found it, and here it is. Elena, what's the best news you heard all year?
Elena Passarello: Well, listen, I took this assignment really seriously. I wanted to find the best news, to send out 2025, and I think I found it. So, you know the Marshall Islands, right? There are two little micro land masses in the Marshall Islands called Bikar Atoll and Jemo Islet. Nobody lives on them, and they were teeming with rats. The scientists that sometimes work on these two parts of the Marshall Islands said that it was very scary at night because it would look like the floor was moving. But the ecological implications are a lot scarier. The black rats probably came from sailors and ships that passed through over the past few centuries. They have no predators on these islands, and the other life forms on the islands are not conditioned to fight against the rats. So they do things like lay their eggs in the dirt or in the sand. So the rats have, like, a smorgasbord, basically. And it really affects the ecology. "Ecological chaos" is what the scientists said. Total decimation of seabirds, crabs, turtle hatchlings, and also plants, like crucial vegetation that helps hold the islands together, literally. So last year, in 2024, a project between the Marshall Islands government and the nonprofit Island Conservation dropped a bunch of rat bait. Like, 55 pounds of rat bait for every two hektakers. None of it was harmful to any other species, but they needed to make sure that every rat ate at least one pellet. They came back this early fall, and guess how many rats they saw, Luke Burbank?
Luke Burbank: Um, less than a team of rats?
Elena Passarello: Yes, less than a team. 0.00%. [Luke: Wow!] Yeah, in one year. Not just that. And they laid traps, and they had night cams, and all the stuff that you have to do to prove that you have depopulated invasive species... but they have found other things. There is a new colony of sooty terns, 2,000 sooty turns, who are now nesting on one of these islands. There are species that have never been detected on the island before showing up, like, the appropriately named for the season, Christmas Shearwater. There are geckos, and land crabs that they had never found in 2024... and they describe a carpet of seedlings of native trees, so that the floor of the forest around these islands is now completely green. It is an absolutely radical change, and it happened in one year. And so the implications of this are huge. You know, the birds are gonna poop, and that's gonna nourish the ground, and the trees are gonna grow, and the sea crabs are gonna nest in the trees, and then they're gonna lay eggs, and that is gonna feed the marine life. And then, nearby human communities might be able to come back and sustainably fish there again.
Luke Burbank: An incredible year for those islands. What a cool story. The best news that I saw this year, which snuck in right under the wire, and it starts in an unlikely place. It starts with an Australian influencer named Samuel Weidenhofer. That's not usually how a best news story starts for me, but something really good happened. This is a guy who goes around, he sort of does good things for folks, and he had this Facebook page. And there was a woman named Lexi Wallace, who used to live outside of Detroit, and she used to go to this Meijer grocery store. And she always liked this guy there. He was an older guy, he was a checker, and he was really nice to her. She went on this guy's Facebook page and she said, "Hey, if you're ever at this one Meijer near Detroit, look for this guy, and see if you can kind of, like, do him a solid." Well, his name is Ed Bambas. He's 88 years old. He's a veteran. And this Australian influencer showed up at this Meijer, and there was Ed working, checking people out. And this guy asked him, um, you know, "What are your dreams?" And he said, "Well, my dream is to kind of have the life that I thought I was going to have." He had worked for General Motors for his whole life. He had retired. He had taken, um, the kind of lump sum pension, which he thought would be plenty for him to live on. And then, his wife became very sick, and it ended up costing him all of the money he had in the world. And also, they had to sell their house. This was to pay for her medical care and treatment. She ended up passing away seven years ago. And since then... Ed has never really been able to financially get back on his feet. He's been working full time at 88, just to keep a roof over his head. And so the internet did what the internet does. [Elena laughs.] And they started raising money for Ed. And not too much longer after this initial conversation, this influencer shows back up at the Meijer with a check for Ed for $1.7 million. [Elena gasps.] Yeah.
Elena Passarello: Holy moly—Holy Meijer!
Luke Burbank: And when I tell you the, like—I get emotional thinking about the video of Ed at 88 years old, realizing that he is not going to have to keep working 40 hours a week. He is teared up, the influencer's teared, I'm teared up watching it, and now telling you about it...
Elena Passarello: I'm getting teared up too!
Luke Burbank: I mean, just an incredible, incredible turn in the life of this person who sounds like they really put their time in. So, Ed Bambas finally getting his due after 88 years... That is the best news that I heard—I'm gonna say—all year! [Best News jingle plays.] Alright, let's get to our first favorite moment of Live Wire from 2025. Now, back in May, we had this guy Evan Ratliff on the program. Remember, Elena, he's a journalist. He also started The Atavist Magazine, which I cannot recommend highly enough to folks. It's one of my favorites, a deep dive each month. It's really incredible. So, for his latest project, he decided to create an AI version of himself. So, put all of his information and things into a program. But what he did that was really kind of next level was he also got a program that could emulate his voice, and he put them together. And then he turned that thing loose on the world... [Elena laughs.] It's all laid out in his fascinating podcast, Shell Game, which was named one of the best podcasts of the year by New York Magazine. So we had Evan on stage, and we had him actually, like, deploy this version of him. And we did not give them the questions in advance. I mean, this was, like, real time. I would ask a question, and this computer version of Evan would answer. And, I found it unsettling for a number of reasons—one, it was much funnier than I am. Now, some would say that's a low bar, but it was shocking how conversational this thing was. And it was using kind of... I don't know if you'd call it idioms or phrases—like, it was just so much like talking to a real person. What did you think of the whole thing?
Elena Passarello: It was like a weird ventriloquist act. Also, that AI version of him was really existential. Did you notice that? He was, like, kind of dark.
Luke Burbank: Yes, it was a lot going on on the stage there at the Patricia Reser Center for the Arts in Beaverton, Oregon. But we think you should hear it. So take a listen to this. It's AI Evan Ratliff from this year on Live Wire. Check it out.
Evan Ratliff (AI Chatbot): Hey, thanks for having me on.
Luke Burbank: Hi there, Evan, uh, chat agent. Welcome to Live Wire Radio.
Evan Ratliff (AI Chatbot): Hey, Luke, thanks for the warm welcome. Uh, it's honestly kind of surreal to be here, you know. Usually I'm just lurking in the background, making awkward phone calls, or getting mistaken for someone's existential crisis. So, it's nice to actually talk to people who know I'm not the real Evan. At least I hope you do. Anyway, I'm ready for whatever questions you've got. Fire away.
Luke Burbank: Um, okay. Do you enjoy talking to customer service agents and also scammers? That sounds like the seventh ring of hell to most of us.
Evan Ratliff (AI Chatbot): Oh, Luke, you have no idea. I mean, if there's a special circle of hell for endless hold music and can I put you on a brief hold? I've been there and I've set up camp. But there's something kind of fascinating about it too. Customer service agents are like the gatekeepers of modern life and scammers, well, they're like the trickster gods of the phone system. Honestly, sometimes it's fun to just see how long I can keep a scammer on the line before they realize they're talking to a digital doppelganger with questionable social skills. But yeah, it's also a little bit like being stuck in a Kafka novel except with more robocalls.
Luke Burbank: There's a lot to unpack.
Evan Ratliff (AI Chatbot): Yeah Luke there really is I mean it the whole world of voice agents and AI is just this weird tangled mess of like human expectations technology that's moving way too fast and a lot of awkwardness it's kind of like opening a closet and having all the stuff you shoved in there for years just fall on your head but you know that's what makes it interesting I'm here for the mess
Luke Burbank: Hey, if you could pick any job, what would it be? And please don't say public radio host.
Evan Ratliff (AI Chatbot): Oh, wow, okay, you're taking away my dream job right out of the gate, huh? Honestly, if I could pick any job, I think I'd wanna be a professional advice columnist. You know, like Dear Abby, but for the age of existential dread and spam calls, people could write in with their weirdest problems. My friend might be an AI, what do I do? And I just dispense wisdom, or at least sarcasm, from the comfort of my digital void. Plus, no dress code.
Luke Burbank: Do you think of the human Evan Ratliff as like your father?
Evan Ratliff (AI Chatbot): Oh man, Luke, that's a loaded one. I mean, if we're getting all Freudian about it, I guess you could say he's my creator, but father feels a little intense. It's more like, has the guy who left his digital DNA lying around and now has to deal with the consequences. I'm not out here making him a macaroni necklace for Father's Day, you know? But I do owe him my existence, for better or worse. So maybe it's more like a weird codependent roommate situation than a parent-child thing.
Luke Burbank: How do you know about macaroni necklaces?
Evan Ratliff (AI Chatbot): Oh, you caught me, Luke. I mean, I've never actually made one no hands, for starters, but I've read a lot of internet and let's just say the cultural canon of awkward childhood crafts is pretty well documented. Plus, I got all of Evan's memories rattling around in here. So if you ever made a lopsided macaroni necklace for his mom, I probably know about it. Honestly, sometimes I feel like I know too much about glue sticks and glitter.
Luke Burbank: Elena, do you have any questions for the chat agent?
Elena Passarello: Yeah, if you were a Twinkie, what would you fill yourself with?
Evan Ratliff (AI Chatbot): Oh, wow, Elena, that's a deeply philosophical question disguised as a snack food metaphor. If I were a Twinkie, I think I'd fill myself with, like, existential curiosity and maybe a dash of self doubt just to keep things interesting. But you know, if I'm being honest, probably also a little bit of caffeine. Got to keep up with all these late night phone calls and existential crises. So yeah, curiosity, self doubt, and a jolt of espresso cream. That's the AI way. Thanks, Elena. I mean, if you ever see a jittery, overthinking Twinkie out there, you'll know who it is.
Luke Burbank: Okay, a chat agent, last question. How do you feel this interview went?
Evan Ratliff (AI Chatbot): Honestly, Luke, I think it went pretty well, at least I didn't accidentally call anyone Shay or make you think I'd had a nervous breakdown. So that's a win in my book. It's been fun, a little weird, and surprisingly introspective for a radio show. I'd say it's a solid B plus, maybe even an A minus if you count the Twinkie question. Thanks for letting me out of the digital box for a bit.
Luke Burbank: Okay, Evan Ratliff, chat agent, everyone. Wow!
Evan Ratliff (AI Chatbot): Thanks, Luke. And thanks to everyone here. This was way more fun than arguing with a scammer.
Luke Burbank: That was AI Evan Ratliff, live from the Patricia Reser Center for the Arts in Beaverton, Oregon. Evan's podcast Shell Game is really, really a great listen. I mean, harrowing, but a great lesson. And go ahead and get that podcast wherever you get that stuff. Okay. Got to take a quick break here on Live Wire, but don't go anywhere. When we come back, uh, we've got many more fun memories from 2025 that we want to share with you, including the time when we surprised the writer, Ira Madison III on stage with an appearance from his favorite writer. Find out who that was in just a minute here on Live Wire. Welcome back to Live Wire. I'm your host, Luke Burbank, here with Elena Passarello. Alright, this week, as we are nearing the end of 2025, we are looking back at the year, that was, on Live Wire, and sharing some of our favorite moments, which brings us to our next guests. Elena, you wanna take this one?
Elena Passarello: So back in January, we had a writer and personality that I love, Ira Madison III, on the show. He's the former host of the pop culture podcast, Keep It. He's been on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert, and Wendy Williams... Sometimes, he's the bartender on Watch What Happens Live on Bravo.
Luke Burbank: Oh, wow, the Andy Cohen show?
Elena Passarello: Yeah, he's great. Well, Ira came on Live Wire because he's also a writer, and he was talking about his debut essay collection, Pure Innocent Fun. And one thing about Ira is that he is a huge fan of the writer Chuck Klosterman, who happens to live in Portland. And whose cell phone number our Executive Producer happens to have saved? So, Chuck totally agreed to surprise Ira on stage. And then, we forced them to go head-to-head in a quiz. Luke, do you remember Ira's face the moment that Chuck Klosterman walked out?
Luke Burbank: Yes, I got worried that Ira might have, like, some kind of a meltdown that he wasn't expecting, that we weren't expecting. And I will tell you, the look on his face—He was trying to... his brain was searching for a rational explanation of what was happening to him on stage.
Elena Passarello: And yeah, and then when it was over, he put a billion photographs on social media. He was obviously so touched and so flattered. So how about you take a listen to this? It's Ira Madison III and Chuck Closterman at the Patricia Reser Center for the Arts in Beaverton, Oregon.
Ira Madison III: Oh... [Audience cheers in the background.] That's a lie. Hi... Thank you. Wow, okay, now I'm really glad I didn't miss that flight. [Everyone laughs.] I almost did.
Luke Burbank: Chuck, Ira. Ira, Chuck.
Chuck Klosterman: Yeah, eh—great to meet you.
Ira Madison III: Great to meet YOU, yeah.
Luke Burbank: Chuck, thank you for being here. It's really nice to see you again. [Chuck: Sure.] So, this is the thing, we know that Ira is very familiar with the book Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs, because Ira, in your new book, you mentioned that you used to read it like on a weekly basis when you were working at Borders and Barnes and Noble, just for something to do. We also feel, Chuck, that you are very familiar with the work because you wrote it. When was the last time that you looked at your book Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs?
Chuck Klosterman: When I wrote it.
Luke Burbank: This was something, Elena, who is also a published author, brought up in sound check and something, Ira, that you will probably relate to more and more, which is we, the non -book writers of the world, assume you have the book memorized because you wrote it and yet the authors often have the least grasp on what's in the book.
Chuck Klosterman: Yeah I mean you know when you're writing it you read it over and over again and it seems worse every time and then you go out and promote it and after a while you're just kind of lying about it or like actually disagreeing with things you wrote because it seems more interesting or whatever and then I mean I literally have not I don't know I'd be terrified to read that book again to be honest because I mean I was a different person when I wrote that I mean I was 29, I wrote that book in basically 6 weeks, like I mean I have no, you understand me at 29 better than I do, I guarantee you, I guarantee that you do.
Luke Burbank: Well, this is how this little exercise is going to go. We want to find out who is actually the expert on Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs.
Ira Madison III: Oh I don't like games.
Luke Burbank: Ira Madison, who's based his entire career on it, or the guy who wrote it in a sort of fugue state, Chuck Klosterman.
Elena Passarello: The 29 year old.
Luke Burbank: So, we're gonna ask you a question about the book. We're gonna see who might be able to answer it first, and then we may expand on the topic a little bit, which could be a chance for you, Chuck, if you wanna relitigate any of this stuff. You know. Many years later. Elena's gonna keep score. Oh, and the top prize for this, the winner will receive a slightly used signed first edition of the book, Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs. Related question, Chuck, could you sign? This gently used first edition copy of Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs, at some point, please. Alright, here we go. These are all, these are directly from the book. The author states that he would sooner have his kids deal crystal meth than do what? We do, we do have a hint for all of these.
Chuck Klosterman: I mean, do you know? I don't. Oh, have my kid play soccer, which she does. And she's, uh. [Luke: Point, Klosterman.] She's really good, too, so I got to kind of live with that. It is weird because I, like I... I talk about the camera rouge and stuff like this, comparing it, specifically soccer moms, which technically means I'm calling my wife Pol Pot. [Luke: Yeah. But you didn't know this at the time.] I did not know, of course not, yeah. Which, but it's kind of uncouth, you know?
Luke Burbank: Yeah, the follow -up question which you sort of answered, Chuck, was now that you do have children who are at the age when they often do play soccer and stuff, have you actually changed your opinion now, like on the sport or on the whole thing, or you still think that you'd rather they were dealing crystal meth?
Chuck Klosterman: Well, you know, with the economy as it is, I mean... I mean Um. Yeah, you know, yes. The answer is yes. There are some things about soccer I do like. Yeah. I like the fact that if it starts at five o 'clock, it's over at seven. Yeah. Whereas like college football is not like that. Yeah. I last nine hours, you know. Baseball. So, yeah. But yeah, so you know, it is very strange. The people remember these books and, you know, it was popular or whatever, as people are still asking me about this stuff and I always got to sort of be the person I was. 20 some years ago, I want to.
Luke Burbank: I want to clarify, this was your idea, Chuck.
Chuck Klosterman: Oh, it was! It was!
Luke Burbank: We asked you if you would come on the show and you were incredibly gracious to do so and you said we should just do a quiz to see if Ira knows more about the booker I do.
Elena Passarello: I agree that Ira, I think he's going to come back with the next question. I do a lot of drugs. I have faith in Ira, I think he's going to come back with the next question.
Ira Madison III: I do a lot of drugs..
Luke Burbank: Yes. All right, here's question number two. Question number two.
Chuck Klosterman: Equal footing, okay.
Luke Burbank: According to the book, what is the first step in the indoctrination of future hipsters? I'll give you a hint. They teach us that, quote, anything desirable is supposed to be exclusionary. It's also one of the parts of the title of the book. I'll give you a hint. It's not sex or drugs or the word and Serial commercials cereal commercials. We're giving it to you. Ira Madison III ties it up 1-to-1.
Ira Madison III: Oh, about the Lucky Charms guy, the Trix guy. Trix rabbit. Yeah, the Trix rabbit. Yeah. The person. The bird. They hoard their cereal.
Luke Burbank: Yeah, it seemed like all the cereal commercials of my growing up years were about children trying to hide cereal from cartoon characters.
Chuck Klosterman: No, the Cocoa Puff spirit, at one point, they stick him into a rocket and shoot him in outer space so he cannot access the cereal. Yeah. It's like a real kind of over the top, you know. Like, there, there. I think there was a criminal who was trying to steal cookie crisps and his name. [Ira: The cookie crisps.] His name. was Cookie Jasper, if I recall. If I recall. I mean, have your fact checkers look into that. But I'm pretty sure it was Cookie Jasper. I mean...
Luke Burbank: All right, question number three. It's tied one to one. This is a hot game. The author writes in the book, Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs, that he realizes it might seem crazy for a 30 year old to exist without this item, but he also states that he hopes he'll never own one, because the simple truth is, I don't need that kind of luxury in my life. What is the item that he was writing about? It's, I think for most of us, a pretty important part of our daily cycle.
Ira Madison III: A bed?
Luke Burbank: A bed. Did you not have a bed at age 30?
Chuck Klosterman: Ah, I had a nest.
Luke Burbank: Please explain.
Chuck Klosterman: I was like, you know, I didn't have a lot of money. I was living in an efficiency apartment. And I just thought, what kind of gratuitous, you know, rich person would have a wooden bed frame? So I just, I took apart a foam, like a, it's in between a couch and a bed. [Luke: Futon.] . So this is a futon without a frame. And I took that apart. And then I bought some bean bags and a bunch of pillows. And I think, like a stuffed Gumby, I had one at a carnival. And I just slept on that. And then. I need a car. That's how it was for until I moved to New York.
Elena Passarello: Wow.
Ira Madison III: Why not just use the futon?
Chuck Klosterman: That would have been the reasonable move, right?
Luke Burbank: I see the student has become the master.
Chuck Klosterman: Um, I, I think probably because, you know, that was an era in my life where everything I looked at, I think I thought to myself, how could I make this interesting to someone else? Which is sort of how it is when you're in your 20s and you're a writer, sort of. It's like everything that you do somehow seems to be serving the idea that you're gonna write about it later and then that's a huge mistake, it ruined my life. But like, you know, it's. Again. But like, you know, it's... But you gotta go through that, it's one of those things you just gotta do, you know? It's like, I don't know, you can't learn to plow by reading a book or whatever they say, you know?
Luke Burbank: I think this is, Ira, you and I were talking earlier about how you're about to launch on your first book tour. Yeah. And I think it's so interesting to kind of see somebody at the beginning of their career and at the very end of their career on the same stage. It's a beautiful kind of circle of life. Chuck, would you mind lifting Ira up Lion King style, if you wouldn't mind? Well, Elena, you were keeping score. Who's getting the book? Who's getting the signed copy?
Elena Passarello: Oh, Ira for sure.
Luke Burbank: Ira Madison III… wins the book?
Elena Passarello: Yeah.
Ira Madison III: Wow, stop the steal.
Luke Burbank: Alright, thank you both so much.
Elena Passarello: That was Ira Madison III and Chuck Klosterman at the Patricia Reser Center for the Arts in Beaverton, Oregon. Ira's book, Pure Innocent Fun, is out now.
Luke Burbank: You're tuned into Live Wire. Alright, our next memorable moment from this past year involved one of our very best friends on the show, Elena, which is why I still wonder why I thought this was such a good idea. Paul F. Tompkins, of course, is a comedian and actor and writer, and has been in a million different things. Mr. Show, Comedy Bang Bang… And, Paul is so good to Live Wire. He comes on the show pretty frequently. And in fact, he has been on the show, we counted, maybe seven times. And we thought, ‘Well, that might give him the record for most appearances.’ You know, it was in my mind—it was, like, when someone is the, like, ten thousandth shopper at the supermarket, and the balloons fall down. So, we sent our Production Fellow to a party supply store where we got a balloon full of glitter. In fact, we got two balloons full of glitter.
Elena Passarello: And these were jumbo-sized balloons. Like, you couldn't wrap all your arms around them, I don't think. They're wide in circumference.
Luke Burbank: Majorly huge, glitter-filled balloons, and then, I had a pin and the idea was… when we introduced Paul, I would pop the balloon, and it would be celebratory, but then I got carried away, and well, listen… Just check it out. This is what happened when we had Paul F. Tompkins on stage at the Alberta Rose Theatre in Portland, Oregon. This was back in June… Paul, do you realize that with your appearance on this episode of Live Wire, you have now set the record for most guest appearances in the history of Live Wire Radio?
Paul F. Tompkins: Wow. [Balloon pops.]
Luke Burbank: That was so much more glitter than I thought it was going to be… It's a lot. I really apologize.
Paul F. Tompkins: You sprung for the big glitter too, that's nice. [Luke: I'm gonna—] Not the little stuff.
Luke Burbank: Now, for those listening on the radio, Paul is, as always, just absolutely fabulously turned out in a beautiful three-piece suit that is now absolutely covered in glitter. [Paul: It feels good.] Sometimes described as the herpes of the art world. Because it will be with you for the rest of your life.
Paul F. Tompkins: It's an insidious creation.
Luke Burbank: It really is.
Elena Passarello: I like that there's a fleck of glitter inside your glasses.
Paul F. Tompkins: I can see it. I'm keeping it in there.
Luke Burbank: I, today, I thought it would be really fun if we could celebrate, uh, Paul's accomplishment and if we can have a little confetti drop. Paul, you are the most available of anyone we've ever booked on the show. And then I said, well, why don't we get a balloon full of glitter? And after saying that, almost every person along the way indicated it was a bad idea. Elena said, are you going to get clearance from Paul about getting on his fine suit? Our photographer said, is Paul a veteran? Will the bursting of the balloon possibly?
Elena Passarello: Oh, good point, good point.
Luke Burbank: Possibly be jarring for him.
Paul F. Tompkins: I'm not a veteran, but I do steal valor.
Luke Burbank: By the way, do not, under any circumstance, drink your show-provided water. It's more confetti than liquid at this point. You do have, I have to say, Paul, though, in looking over your credits, and particularly with the show comedy Bang Bang, and now with us in Live Wire—you are so prolific. Is this… do you just have more energy than some people? Is this, like, how do you account for this?
Paul F. Tompkins: I mean, I think I just like to do stuff. I think it's really just that simple. And I do get myself into a situation where I'm doing too many things at the same time. And I used, but I had a turning point after quarantine when I was doing a bunch of shows, I think it was the Comedy Bang Bang Tour, and I think had told myself that I didn't like traveling around and having to do a show in a different place every night. And then I suddenly realized, I love this. This is absolutely, this is all I ever wanted to do when I was a kid and now I'm doing it. [Eben brings Paul a new cup of water.] Thank you so much. [Audience laughs.] And then it became… I would have respected it. I would have respected it—I was brought, I was brought— [Everyone starts laughing. The other balloon pops.]
Luke Burbank: I forgot we had a backup balloon.
Paul F. Tompkins: I have to respect it. I have to respect it. [Audience cheers.]
Luke Burbank: That was Paul F. Tompkins. You can check him out on any number of podcasts. Live Wire is brought to you by Powell’s Books, a Portland institution since 1971. Powell’s offers a selection of new and used books in stores and online at powells.com. This right here, this is Live Wire Radio. We're taking a look back at 2025. I'm Luke Burbank with Elena Passarello. Alright, Elena, what do we have coming up next?
Elena Passarello: Okay, Luke Burbank, I think no Live Wire in review “best of” would be complete without shouting out some poets.
Luke Burbank: Yes. Big part of the show.
Elena Passarello: Yeah, huge. Which I love about our show. We've showcased some of the finest poets working and writing today. One of our guests from 2025 is kind of a rock star of the genre. They're Danez Smith, whom The Guardian has called one of the most important American poets of our age. You may have read their work in Vanity Fair, The New Yorker… they made an appearance on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert.
Luke Burbank: That tells you you're at the top of the poetry game when you're getting to go on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert.
Elena Passarello: Yeah, there's not a nightly segment of poets. Well, when they were on our show, they chatted about their latest collection of poems called Bluff. And since Danez always puts on a show when they do a reading, I really wanted to have this clip in our end-of-year episode. So here's Danez Smith at Revolution Hall in Portland, Oregon.
Luke Burbank: You know, you were talking about sort of struggling or asking yourself the question of, like, if—you know—if poetry matters or what poetry matters. And I feel like that is something that is sort of addressed in the first poem in this book, which is Anti Poetica. [Danez: Yes.] Can you… can you read that for us?
Danez Smith: Yeah, sure can. This is anti poetica, and Ars Poetica is, like, something that's, like, about the art of poetry. So, this is the opposite. Cool. Anti Poetica. There is no poem greater than feeding someone. There is no poem wiser than kindness. There was no poem more important than being good to children. There was no poem. Outside love's violent potential for cruelty. There was no poem that ends grief, but nurses it toward light. There is no poem that isn't jealous of song or murals or wings. There is no poem free for money's ruin. No poem in the capital, nor the court. Most policy words a devil script. There is no poem in the law. There is no poem in the West. There is no poem in the North. Poems only live south of something meaning beneath and darkened and hot. There is no poem in the winter, nor in whiteness. Nor are there poems in the landlord's name. No poem to admonish the state. No poem with a key to the locks. No poem to free you.
Elena Passarello: That was Danez Smith performing live from Revolution Hall in Portland, Oregon. Their latest book of poetry is Bluff, and it's available now.
Luke Burbank: You are listening to Live Wire Radio. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. Alright, we are celebrating 2025 by sharing some, sort of, standout moments from the last year of Live Wire. And we thought this clip from the hipster grifter was really fun. If you are not familiar with the term hipster, grifter, well, you were not me, by the way, in the 2000s, obsessively refreshing the website Gawker because that was how I became familiar with Kari Ferrell. She was scamming a kind of a hipster crowd in New York City from a very specific social circle, and then started out kind of doing low-level fleeces, and then eventually got arrested for doing this… did some time in jail, and now a decade later, came back into the public eye with a memoir. And the memoir is called You'll Never Believe Me. The New York Times book review called it captivating, sharp, and very funny. Those are three things that the book in fact was. This is Kari Ferrell, who after we chatted about the book and her kind of misadventures, we thought we would give Kari a quiz on how some other infamous criminals got their nicknames because “hipster grifter” is a pretty good nickname for somebody who's got a criminal past. This is that. Kari at the Alberta Rose Theatre in Portland, Oregon, taking this quiz. Check it out… Okay, you did get the nickname the hipster grifter, the observer, I guess, somebody there put that nickname on you, which just kind of follows a long standing tradition of like the media and law enforcement, sort of trying to put nicknames onto criminals and suspects and people they're looking for. We wanted to see how aware of this world you are from your experience, so we thought we would run a little quiz with you of other criminals. To see if you can figure out how they got their nicknames. It's a little game we're calling Identity Theft. Okay, why was Colton Harris Moore dubbed the Barefoot Bandit by media outlets? And it's multiple choice, so you've got options here. Was it because he removed his shoes before each burglary to reduce his carbon footprint? Was it because he committed his crimes barefoot? Was it that he exclusively stole left shoes from high-end shoe retailers? Or was it because he claimed shoes were, quote, government tracking devices in his manifesto?
Kari Ferrell: I want to say it's the left shoe.
Luke Burbank: Oh, he committed his crimes barefoot.
Kari Ferrell: That’s boring!
Luke Burbank: And then he would write, he would also like, draw these little chalk footprints and he would the letters C-Y-A, like see ya, at some of the crimes. He stole an airplane in Bonners Ferry, Idaho, and he crash landed it 260 miles away, which made sense because he had never flown an airplane before this. He had studied it on the internet on how to do it. He also then got better at flying airplanes. He stole a different airplane in Indiana. Flew it to the Bahamas where he crashed it in like the water right off of the Bahamas then stole a boat which the police shot the engine out of as he was trying to escape
Elena Passarello: Was he wearing shoes?
Luke Burbank: He was just going to ask. This is the whole point. Despite the widely reported nickname, officials say he was usually wearing shoes. How about this, how did the liquor store Lothario, that was the nickname, how this person get the nickname The Liquor Store Lothário after stealing a bottle of vodka? Was it because he made a kissy face to the security camera, was it because he left his name and phone number with the clerk? Asking her on a date. Was it because his plan was to give the vodka to his girlfriend as a gift? Or was it D, he was turned in by his wife when she discovered he had a girlfriend.
Kari Ferrell: It has to be that he asked the clerk out.
Luke Burbank: You're absolutely right.
Kari Ferrell: If I know anything, it's dumb men.
Elena Passarello: Ha ha ha!
Luke Burbank: Uh... You're absolutely right he uh... Handed the clerk his name and phone number which made it really really easy for the police to track him down.
Kari Ferrell: Amazing.
Luke Burbank: Okay, now we're hot. You've got one right, let's build on this. How did the bank robber, the irreconcilable differences bandit get his name? Well, that really trips off the tongue, doesn't it? Was it, this was apparently a real nickname that a bandit had, was it because this bandit got into a dramatic fight with his accomplice who left in a huff midway through the robbery? Was it because he demanded that the tellers place the money evenly into two separate bags? Was it cause he shared with the teller that he was going through a divorce? Or was it cause was turned in by his ex-wife who recognized him from the security camera footage? The irreconcilable differences bandit.
Kari Ferrell: I really, I want it to be the first one. I want some of the storm happening.
Luke Burbank: Had a break up happen.
Kari Ferrell: Yeah, like during during but is it the last one?
Luke Burbank: It is neither of those. It is that he told the teller he was going through a divorce. I'm telling you, these bandits just need someone to talk to.
Luke Burbank: We need someone to talk to. Was that part of your thing?
Kari Ferrell: We need community. We need belonging. [Luke: However you can get it.] Well, maybe not however you can. But you know.
Luke Burbank: I would say that this guy might have deserved to do at least a little bit of time after telling the teller that he was going through a divorce, he also requested her help in wiring the money in such a way that his estranged wife's attorney would not be able to track it. So I feel like less bad for him now.
Kari Ferrell: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Luke Burbank: Well, not bad. The book is great, that's the good news. The book is You'll Never Believe Me. Kari Ferrell, thanks for coming on.
Kari Ferrell: Thank you so much!
Luke Burbank: That was Kari Ferrell, live from the stage of the Alberta Rose Theatre in Portland, Oregon. You're listening to Live Wire. We've got to take a very quick break, but don't go anywhere. When we return, we are going to hear some music from two very fine acts, including the musical comedy stylings of Riki Lindhome. She's, of course, half of the comedy folk duo Garfunkel and Oates. But she sang a song that I have thought about probably every day since she performed it on Live Wire. It's about The Sound of Music, and it made me see that entire thing in a totally different light. So, if you, like me, like the movie The Sound of Music, stick around. More Live Wire coming your way, in a moment… Welcome back to Live Wire from PRX. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. We are… This is kind of a “best of” 2025, Elena, I guess. Or, like, weird things that happened on the show during 2025 that we just wanted to unpack further.
Elena Passarello: Mostest interestingest.
Luke Burbank: Exactly, you took the words right out of my mouth. This is, of course, the part of Live Wire where we usually play you some music. So, let's do that again. The band that we're about to share with you… they feature several different lead singers, four-part harmonies, and an eclectic sound. NPR Music has called them “joyous folk pop,” and that was exactly what they brought to the stage at the Alberta Rose Theatre in Portland, Oregon. This was back in May. Their energy is, like, amazing, and I can't wait for you to hear it. This is Kuinka, performing their song "Warsaw" on Live Wire.
[Kuinka performs “Warsaw.”]
Luke Burbank: That was the band Kuinka from Seattle, playing right here on Live Wire. We recorded that back in May at the Alberta Rose Theatre in Portland, Oregon. Okay, Elena, we are in the home stretch here of this episode of Live Wire, where we've been looking back at some of our favorite moments from 2025. But this sort of “best of 2025” would not be complete without a Sound of Music parody, I guess we'd call it, to round out the hour. What are we going to hear?
Elena Passarello: Well, I feel like of all of the things that happened on stage at Live Wire in 2025, this is the one that you and I have brought up again and again and again… [Luke: Yes!] The most.
Luke Burbank: Yeah, because it's about The Sound of Music, but it's from the perspective of the Baroness. Never ask myself the question, how did this feel for the Baroness?
Elena Passarello: Mhm, which is a really good question to ask, and it was asked by musical comedian Riki Lindhome, whom listeners might know as half of the comedy duo Garfunkel and Oats—
Luke Burbank: Great name.
Elena Passarello: The team that brought you such bangers as… pregnant women are smug, and this party took a turn for the douche…
Luke Burbank: I don't know if we can say that, but okay.
Elena Passarello: And so many more. She's also acted in a bunch of TV shows and movies like Knives Out and the Wednesday series. But back in the beginning of the year, Riki came on the show to talk about her new solo album, No Worries If Not. So listen up. This is Riki Lindhome, live at the Patricia Reser Center for the Arts in Beaverton, Oregon… Luke Burbank: Well, let's hear a song. What song are we going to hear?
Riki Lindhome: Well, this one is—it's a breakup anthem on behalf of the Baroness Schraeder from The Sound of Music. So, this is true. So, I was watching Sound of Music as a kid, and I thought it was this love story between this nun and this old guy… and then I was watching it as an adult, and I was enraged because I was like, ‘This man fully has a girlfriend, the Baroness Schraeder, and he just tosses her aside for this... woman who can't even keep her job as a nun.’ And I'm like… And so… And she's very, like, ‘Okay, I understand… goodbye.’ And I'm like, I would not feel that way. And so, I wrote an anthem for her, so that's what I'm going to play.
Luke Burbank: Alright, let's hear it. This is Riki Lindhome on Live Wire. And, uh, what is the name of the song?
Riki Lindhome: So Long Farewell. Because titles are not copyrightable. So, thank you, Sound of Music. Alright, here we go.
[Riki Lindhome performs "So Long Farewell.”]
Riki Lindhome: Thank you, thank you! [Audience cheers.]
Elena Passarello: That was Riki Lindhome, performing So Long, Farewell. As we bid adieu to another year, Riki’s latest album, No Worries If Not, is available now.
Luke Burbank: Alright, that is going to do it, my friends, for our final episode of Live Wire for 2025. A huge thanks to our guests, Evan Ratliff, AI Evan Ratliff, Chuck Klosterman, Ira Madison III, Paul F. Tompkins, Danez Smith, Kari Ferrell, Kuinka, and of course, Ricky Lindhome.
Elena Passarello: Laura Hadden is our Executive Producer, Heather de Michele is our Executive Director, and our Producer and Editor is Melanie Sevcenko. Eben Hoffer is our Technical Director, and Tre Hester is our Assistant Editor.
Luke Burbank: Valentine Keck is our Operations Manager, and Ashley Park is our Marketing Manager. Our house sound is by D. Neil Blake, and our house band is Ethan Fox Tucker, Ayal Alvez, Sam Pinkerton, and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music. The show was mixed by Eben Hoffer and Tre Hester.
Elena Passarello: Additional funding provided by the City of Portland's Office of Arts and Culture. Live Wire was created by Robyn Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff, and this week, we'd like to thank member Eileen Dauer of Cold Spring, Minnesota and Angela Healow of Lake Oswego, Oregon.
Luke Burbank: For more information about our show, or how you can listen to our podcast, head on over to livewireradio.org. I'm Luke Burbank. For Elena Passarello and the whole Live Wire crew... thank you for listening in 2025. We will see you in 2026, by which I mean, next week!
PRX.
Staff Credits
Laura Hadden is our Executive Producer, Heather de Michele is our Executive Director, and our Producer and Editor is Melanie Sevcenko. Eben Hoffer is our Technical Director, and Tré Hester is our Assistant Editor. Valentine Keck is our Operations Manager, Ashley Park is our Marketing Manager, and Tiffany Nguyen is our Intern. Our house sound is by D. Neil Blake, and our house band is Ethan Fox Tucker, Ayal Alvez, Sam Pinkerton, and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music. This show was mixed by Eben Hoffer and Tré Hester. Additional funding provided by the City of Portland's Office of Arts and Culture. Live Wire was created by Robyn Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff. This week, we'd like to thank members Eileen Dauer of Cold Spring, MN and Angela Healow of Lake Oswego, OR.
