Open Book

Written By Ashley Park

Episode 4: Ann Powers

 

July 2, 2025

Music critic Ann Powers (Traveling: On the Path of Joni Mitchell) dishes about her oddball reading journey, from staging puppet shows as a library-dwelling misfit kid to struggling to keep up with her favorite writers on Substack.

 
 
 

Show Notes

Ann Powers is co-author of Tori Amos: Piece by Piece with Tori Amos; author of Good Booty: Love and Sex, Black and White, Body and Soul, and American Music; and most recently, Traveling: On The Path of Joni Mitchell.

Ann and Elena discuss the following:

Ann talks about studying Nathaniel West and F. Scott Fitzgerald, but she also lauds the work of Jacqueline Susann, the author of Valley of the Dolls and Once Is Not Enough.

Ann mentions her husband, music critic Eric Weisbard and organizer of the annual Pop Conference.

Lastly, Ann discusses some of her go-to music and media publications: Pitchfork, Hearing Things, Stereogum. She also mentions general-interest culture publications n+1 and The Drift.

 

  • Elena Passarello: Hi there, I'm writer Elena Passarello, and this is Open Book, a literary podcast from Live Wire Radio brought to you by Powell's Books, where we talk to writers about their reading habits. When I'm not having fun as Live Wire's announcer, writing is my job. I've written two non-fiction books, and I'm currently mired in a third, emphasis on mired. Outside my own writing projects, I teach writing in an MFA program here in Oregon, so all of this is to say that books are, without exaggeration, my whole life. The other day I got some tests run at the doctor's office and it turns out that my blood is 50% historical fiction. This week we're talking to one of the nation's most notable music journalists, Ann Powers. Ann is probably best known as a music critic at NPR. She's also written about pop music for the Los Angeles Times and the New York Times, among others. In 2005, she co-wrote the book Piece by Piece with Tori Amis, my high school, like, imaginary best friend, about the role of women in the music industry. And in 2017, she published Good Booty, Love and Sex, Black and White, Body and Soul in American Music, which examines eroticism in American pop. Her latest book is Traveling: On the Path of Joni Mitchell, which maps the life and artistry of this legendary musician. I'm gonna be real with y'all. I was totally fangirling for like 100% of this interview. I have read and admired Ann's work since I was in college. She's just so insightful when she writes about the way music shapes us all and defines us all. And now that I know more about who Ann is as a reader, I'm an even bigger fan, and you will be too. Let's have a listen to Ann Powers here on Open Book. Ann Powers, I am so excited to have you on Open Book, welcome welcome. 

    Ann Powers: I'm just absolutely thrilled to be here. How fun we're in Seattle, my favorite city, and we're talking books. [Elena: This is your town.] Yes, I grew up here. I did. I grew up at Elliott Bay Bookshop, so I mean not literally, I did have a home, but I spent so much time there and also Seattle Public Library basically did grow up in the Magnolia Public Library. Shout out to my favorite librarian, Zani Goldmanis, actually after I published my first book. I went back to that library and she was still working there and I found her and I thanked her and got a little weepy and I think she was looking at me like, who is this person? But yeah. 

    Elena Passarello: Why was she such a memorable librarian in your past? 

    Ann Powers: Well, you know, I was a real misfit kid. I had skipped a grade and, you know, was definitely like the chubby, nerdy, wiener dog kind of kid. That's a reference to a movie. But anyway, I was a bit of an outcast and so I gravitated toward the library because it was a block from my Catholic school where I went. Right. And I just lived there, you know, and she not only took me under her wing in in terms of. Turning me on to what to read. But she also empowered me. I remember I gave a puppet show. My never realized career in puppetry, but yeah, I staged a puppet shown, which I made a three headed paper mache puppet for the figure of Cerberus, in the story of Demeter and Persephone was what the puppet show was all about. So anyway. 

    Elena Passarello: Very literary. Yeah, yeah. Even from the beginning. There I was. Do you remember a book that she turned you on to when you were baby Ann? 

    Ann Powers: I definitely remember a couple of books that I read that time, three things. One, I can envision in my mind the layout of that library and I know where the myth books were. I was very fixated, especially on Norse myths, help me, and just living right there next to that shelf and reading them all. Also the scariest book I ever read, which was called Ghosts, Ghosts and More Ghosts. I think the author was Robert Arthur. Very frightening book. And also then, precocious kid that I was, I somehow made my way to Camus the Stranger when I was like 11. [Elena: I remember this from your book.] Yeah, kind of a dark, dark childhood, but you know, what can I say? 

    Elena Passarello: Well, after you go ghost, ghost, ghosts, ghost. The only next step is Camus. Oh my gosh. 

    Ann Powers: Oh my gosh, and there was this one story in that book, I think it was called the Rose Crystal Heart, and it was about this man who went to like a fortune teller or something and she said, you're going to be killed when you hear a bell ring or something, you know, and he, the whole story is how he's escaping that, you know, all these things that could have killed him. And then in the end, he hears a bell or something, he falls down a staircase Some reason he has a pendant on that is a rose crystal heart and it pierces him in the heart and he dies. And I was like, Whoa, especially as a Catholic and I'm like, really can't escape my fate. This is freaking me out. So anyway, are you still a horror reader? I don't know. I definitely have read some of the classic Gothic horror, you know, Will K. Collins or is Weathering Heights a horror? I guess, you know.

    Elena Passarello: I mean, I think sometimes when I'm in a certain like hotel or Airbnb and there's a certain kind of window. Yeah, the horror movie that is Wuthering Heights sort of place. It's a windy night. What are your reading habits like now? Like what kind of modalities do you use? Are you a page-only audio book? 

    Ann Powers: I'm really not page only. I'm very much a platform jumper. So, and I've kind of divided things up a bit. So I tend to listen to audio books for fiction. That's my pleasure. And I do that while walking often or cooking. And then nonfiction, I never listened to an audio book because pretty much every time I'm reading a nonfiction book, I'm taking notes. All my books are littered with post-its. You know, because just either I'm working on a new project or I may work on a project that might involve this book one day. So I also, you know, use a journal app to write down quotes and things and keep that for future reference. And then I do also have a Kindle, which I mostly take on planes. You know it's light, literally light reading. So the Kindle is just travel mostly. 

    Elena Passarello: When you are not reading for work, that's usually fiction and that's usual audio format. 

    Ann Powers: I do have another genre of book or style of book I read more for pleasure, but then often I quote it in my work or whatever, which is kind of the hybrid form, similar to my own work. Like an author like Melissa Febos or Olivia Lang is one of my absolute favorites. And those kinds of writers who are mixing kind of memoir. Cultural criticism, a little bit of reporting, maybe, and beautiful writing. I love this essayist, Joni Tevis. There's so many. [Elena: Oh, I love Joni!] Oh, I love that you light up at her. I love you light at her name. That makes me so happy, because I'm a huge fan of hers. 

    Elena Passarello: I hope she, I'm gonna make her listen to this. She's gonna love this, her book, she's a really unspoken or unsung hero of the American essay.  

    Ann Powers: Yes, she truly is. And she deserves much more acknowledgement. 

    Elena Passarello: You've been in this game for long enough that you probably have a full roster of writers that you know and that you work with. How do you keep tabs on the new writers, the new voices? What's that diet like? 

    Ann Powers: Yeah, it's a challenge. For music writers specifically, and we are definitely a clan or a, I guess, Game of Thrones style, many clans, you know. And when I lived in New York, of course, where so many writers live, it was really a social scene, and it still is a social scene. My husband, Eric Weisbart, has long organized this conference called the Pop Conference. It was started here in Seattle, Washington at the now Museum of Popular Culture. That's been going for, I think, 23. 

    Elena Passarello: Yeah, I went to the one in 2007. Oh, wow. I had a panel on Iowa hip-hop. [Ann: Oh, my gosh amazing.] That I had no business doing. [Ann: I love that.] And I remember Griel Marcus was sitting in front of me, and his wife was knitting. [Ann: Yes, Jenny. She always knits.] It was so exciting. It was so exciting. 

    Ann Powers: I know. That's so cool. 

    Elena Passarello: It was like my first time around music writers. 

    Ann Powers: You know, we have, whether it's academics, scholars, or journalists, we have ways of kind of keeping in touch with each other, but it's also, actually the internet has helped so much, strange to say, because the internet has hurt so much in terms of writers being able to make a living, but as far as us being aware of each other and being able to connect with each other, it's been a real gift. And, you know, I have my places I go every week, whether it's pitchfork or. Hearing things or stereograms and places like that, also more general interest publications like N + 1 or The Drift or whatever. And then, well, I don't know how you're coping with it, but the endless flood of substacks, trying to keep track of them. 

    Elena Passarello: Yeah, that's challenging. Yeah, I'm trying to tell myself that I'm gonna wean myself off of other forms of social media so I can make space because I feel like Substack takes more time. 

    Ann Powers: It definitely does, yeah. 

    Elena Passarello: I want to engage with things that someone spent time on. That's my new kind of mantra. 

    Ann Powers: I think, yeah, I think that is an admirable goal for sure, it's hard though, but I think also the one good thing I'll say about the more squirrely forms of social media is they have allowed me to connect with people with whom otherwise I may never have actually spoken, you know, the Twitter friend, I mean, is it a real friendship, who knows, who But out of that has come good connections and and being able to say to someone, hey, I love that thing you wrote. That's really powerful. 

    Elena Passarello: Are you listening, everyone? We need to make sure we reach out to the right... 

    Ann Powers:No, seriously. And I'll tell you something else. You mentioned Griel Marcus. So Griel was an early mentor of mine when I lived in San Francisco when I was like 22, 23 years old and writing for the SF Weekly, Alternative Weekly. And then as now, although now he uses email. Sends notes of praise to writers he admires. I would receive a postcard occasionally from Griel, and this is ongoing throughout my life. Just a little postcard saying, oh, what you wrote, it made me think in a different way or anything like that. And just that simple gesture on his part made such a difference to me. 

    Elena Passarello: Yeah, just the idea that you would be able to change the thinking of somebody who helped you figure out who you were as a thinker, it's a big deal. 

    Ann Powers: I mean someone who was so fundamental to me, I mean reading Mystery Train really is, that's the book that convinced me that I could. 

    Elena Passarello: Be a serious writer and a music writer at the same time. And Mystery Train was probably at least 10, 15 years old by the time you got to it. Yes, it was. Because it's from the early 70s. What was it about it that... 

    Ann Powers: It actually was, I believe it was his master's thesis. It was images of America through popular music, and so great chapters on Elvis, Sly Stone, the band, all these different figures. While they were still working, right? Yeah, but it was really like historic. It was basic American studies style essay writing, but about popular music which people just didn't take serious. 

    Elena Passarello: This is a perfect thing to talk about like a fundamental book like what is it about and everybody should still read mystery train so 

    Ann Powers: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's so many other writers since then who have taken up that form and someone who always deserves mention in 2025 is Hanif Abdurraqib, who really has shown how you can do that kind of work for a new generation. I'm a huge Hanif fan and his poeticism, his masterful use of memoir and autobiography, but also most of all, I think, that connection he has with his reader. I remember the first time I saw Hanif read, he literally got on the and was like at reader level, maybe a little below the eyes of his reader, you know, and just that willingness to humble himself, to not be distanced, I think was a sign that he would become what he became. 

    Elena Passarello: Is that now when you share your book with people in readings or in. 

    Ann Powers: I'm too old to get on the phone. 

    Elena Passarello: What does it feel like to you though as a writer and a reader to share your work with other people? What's your strategy for that one-on-one or that in-person version of yourself? 

    Ann Powers: Yeah, that's a really interesting question, especially now, because I think the book promotion circuit has moved more toward the interview. I'm maybe like you, often on both sides. Sometimes I'm the subject, sometimes I'm interviewer. Sometimes it's a more even conversation. And I love that. I mean, I love having a public conversation. It's a huge part of my career. But I am rarely asked to do just straight up readings, maybe because I'm a nonfiction writer, and a music writer. Something that I don't love about the kind of popular conception of arts writing in general is that the writing itself, the prose itself, I feel like the bar is set lower, that you're not necessarily expected to be an amazing writer at the level of the sentence if you're writing about a popular cultural subject. But all the writers I admire are, you know, whether it's David Thompson in film or Emily Nussbaum on TV or... Or someone whose recent book I really loved is Ira Madison, or, you know, he published a book of essays called Pure Innocent Fun, which it's like talking to a super smart person whose every single cell in their body is pop culture, you know? But it also is great on the level of sentence, you know. 

    Elena Passarello: Yeah, it's funny and fun, he's great with interjections. Well, speaking of, we always like to end with this controversial question. Do you Ann Powers have a controversial reading opinion or book opinion that you'd like to lay on us? 

    Ann Powers: I do, but I think it was controversial maybe 20 years ago, unless so now, but you know, it's that trash can be great. And now we both have the academic study of genres like romance literature, obviously sci-fi, detective novels, all that stuff. And romantic is like ruling, ruling everything. It's the most popular kind of fiction out there right now. But I did my master's thesis on kind of the Hollywood novel. And I of course read Nathaniel West and F. Scott Fitzgerald and people like that, but I also read Jackie Susann because you know what? Cause you know what? 

    Ann Powers: Jackie Susann changed the culture. [Elena: She did.] She totally did. And those novels, they're pure trash for sure. They are not aspiring to be literary. I remember this picture. I'm talking about Once Is Not Enough. I'm talking about Valley of the Dolls. Valley of Dolls, great on every level. Not only a great book, a great trashy book, a great, trashy movie. Also one of the best movie theme songs ever written by the great Dory Previn. So there you go. [Elena: Okay.] Anyway, I remember seeing this picture of Jackie Susann that still inspires me so much. It was her in her office. She had this whiteboard before there were whiteboards or something. It was full of pieces of paper with like, she's plotting out her novel and it was like a war room, you know, it was like it was a war strategy. And I was just like, man, that woman, she knows how to write! She knows how to land the plane. That's right. So, read the trash. Why not? You know, some of it's going to be horrible, but you're going to find some gems. 

    Elena Passarello: Okay, so I'm gonna read Valley of the Dolls, which I've never read. One more trashy title. [Ann: Once is Not Enough.] Once is Not Enough. 

    Ann Powers: Yeah, Once is Not Enough, which when I was in grade school, we're circling back to my grade school stories. When I was a kid, I was at my neighbor's house back in the day when you could run rampant and your parents didn't pay attention to you in the 70s. I was sitting in my neighbors, the Golicks, who lived up the street. My brother was running around with his friend who was one of the kids in that family. I was left alone and I picked up that book and I was sitting there reading it and I remember the dad. Mr. Golick comes in and he looks at me. He was a classic 70s dad, like mustache. I think he might have been like a contractor. I don't know, he was just a classic seventies dad. He comes in, he looks at me, he's like, does your mom know you're reading that? I'm like, yeah, yes. He turned around and walked out. So thank you, Mr. Golick, you set me on my path. 

    Elena Passarello: Mr.Golick, what was the name of your favorite librarian? 

    Ann Powers: Zani Goldmanis, my librarian, all the greats. 

    Elena Passarello: Shout out to all of the early book pushers who made Ann Powers who she is today. Thank you so much for talking about reading with me. I really have enjoyed talking to you so much. [Ann: This was so fun.] That was writer Ann Powers on Open Book. Her book, Traveling: On the Path of Joni Mitchell is out now. Be sure to grab it at Powells.com. Thanks for listening to Open Book, I'm Elena Passarello, your host. Our executive producer is Laura Hadden and our producer and editor is Melanie Sevcenko. Eben Hoffer is our technical director. Haziq Bin Ahmad Farid is our mixer. A Walker Spring composed our theme song and Ashley Park is our social media marketer. A big thanks to the entire staff at Live Wire Radio, the fine folks at PRX, and of course, Powell's Books for sponsoring this podcast.

Ashley Park
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Episode 671