Episode 705
Hari Kondabolu, Lindy West & Meagan Hatcher-Mays, and John Craigie
Comedian Hari Kondabolu tells us about his new podcast Health Stuff and offers his "expert" advice on how to treat some strange medical symptoms of wild animals; best friends and podcasters Lindy West and Meagan Hatcher-Mays are put to the test on how well they really know each other; and musician John Craigie unpacks the paradox of being a shy person and a reluctant guitar player while finding great success as a singer-songwriter, before performing his new tune "Fire Season."
Hari Kondabolu
Comedian and Podcaster
Hari Kondabolu is a critically acclaimed comedian, writer, and podcaster whom The New York Times calls "one of the most exciting political comics in stand-up today." A regular on the public radio, Hari is a frequent panelist on the NPR game show Wait Wait… Don’t Tell Me. He was a guest host on Midday on WNYC. You might also recognize him as the co-host of the 2022 Netflix food competition show Snack vs. Chef with Megan Stalter. As a podcaster, Hari co-hosted the popular Politically Reactive with W. Kamau Bell and is currently co-hosting the Health Stuff podcast with Dr. Priyanka Wali.
Lindy West & Meagan Hatcher-Mays
Podcasters and Real Life Best Friends
Lindy West is the author of the New York Times bestselling memoir Shrill and the essay collections The Witches Are Coming and Shit, Actually. Her fourth book, Adult Braces, a follow-up to Shrill, will be released in 2026. Her work has appeared in This American Life, The New York Times, The Guardian, Cosmopolitan, GQ, Vulture, Jezebel, and many others. She currently co-hosts the weekly comedy podcast Text Me Back! She is the co-founder of the reproductive rights de-stigmatization campaign #ShoutYourAbortion. Lindy was a writer and executive producer on Shrill, the Hulu comedy adapted from her memoir starring Aidy Bryant. She co-wrote and produced the independent feature film Thin Skin, released in 2023. Her e-mail newsletter, Butt News, is regarded by everyone as the most influential and beloved e-mail newsletter of all time.
Website • Instagram • Text Me Back!
Meagan Hatcher-Mays is the co-host of Text Me Back!, a podcast about her deranged and beloved relationship with her BFF Lindy West. She is also, no joke, a lawyer in good standing based in Washington, DC. Before becoming a wildly successful part-time podcast host, she worked as an expert on democracy policy at several progressive organizations as well as in Congress. Meagan has appeared on All In with Chris Hayes, American Voices with Alicia Menendez, and The Mehdi Hasan Show, and has been featured in The New York Times, The Washington Post, CBS News, Vox, and more as a subject matter expert on the courts and democracy.
John Craigie
Folk Musician
John Craigie has mastered the art of creating live shows that feel more like intimate conversations than performances. Infusing humor, wit, and poignant storytelling, his shows make audience members feel like old friends. His latest live album Greatest Hits... Just Kidding... Live - No Hits captures the warmth and spontaneity of these memorable nights. As a tried-and-true performer, he has regularly sold out solo tours in addition to hitting the road with the likes of Langhorne Slim, Brett Dennen, Mason Jennings, Bella White, and Jack Johnson. He has picked up fans with sets at Newport Folk Festival, Pickathon, Edmonton Folk Festival, and High Sierra Music Festival, as well as numerous international tours. His catalog has garnered tens of millions of streams with favorites such as "I Am California," "Highway Blood," "Don't Ask," and "Microdose." 2024's Pagan Church with TK & The Holy Know-Nothings spent six weeks at #1 on Americana Radio Albums Chart. His brand new 2026 album, I Swam Here, is out now.
Show Notes
Best News
Elena’s story: “Plant Believed Extinct For Half A Century Suddenly Found In Unexpected Spot”
Luke’s story: “‘Veronika’ Is the First Cow Known to Use a Tool”
Hari Kondabolu
Hari talks about his experience as the co-host of Netflix’s Snack vs. Chef, with Megan Stalter (Hacks).
Luke and Hari discuss his new podcast Health Stuff, which he co-hosts with Dr. Priyanka Wali.
Hari mentions the under-discussed phenomenon matrescence—the physical, psychological, and social changes caused by motherhood.
Lindy West & Meagan Hatcher-Mays
Lindy and Meagan are real-life best friends and co-hosts of the podcast Text Me Back.
John Craigie
Luke talks to John about his latest album, Greatest Hits…Just Kidding…Live–No Hits (2024)
John plays the song “Fire Season” from his brand-new 2026 album I Swam Here.
This interview was recorded at Domaine Drouhin Oregon as a part of our Speakeasy Series.
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Elena Passarello: From PRX, it's... Live Wire! This week, comedian Hari Kondabolu!
Hari Kondabolu: And the audience doesn't know what's going on, they don't know where the heckle was, so I'd say give it a second, digest it, and then destroy the human being that caused trouble.
Elena Passarello: Podcasters, Lindy West and Meagan Hatcher-Mays.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: I feel like you don't even buy shampoo.
Lindy West: Oh no. What's the need? You can always add more water. Shake it up.
Elena Passarello: With music from John Craigie and our fabulous house band. I'm your announcer, Elena Passarello, and now the host of Live Wire, Luke Burbank.
Luke Burbank: We have an absolutely fantastic show in store for you this week. Can't wait to get to it. First though, we gotta kick things off the way that we always do. A little segment that we call the best news we heard all week. Here is the premise of this segment, despite what you may have heard, there is good news happening on planet Earth. It takes a lot of research, but luckily we've got a crack team that looks for good news and then we find it and we tell you about it. Elena, what's the best news you heard all week?
Elena Passarello: Well, you know what I always say, if you're looking for good news, turn to plants. This news comes from the world of botany. There's a little shrub called Ptilotus senarius. It's a shrub with that has little purple flowers that kind of come up like milkweed, long stalks. Have you ever seen it? [Luke: No, I haven't.] I'm going to tell you, you have you know, I know you haven't because I know when you were born. And the last time anybody saw Ptilotus senarius was nearly a decade before you were born. [Luke: Wow, so like in the 60s or something?] That's right, yeah, LBJ was president. I don't know why I'm bringing up all these American facts like the birth of Luke Burbank and LBJ's presidency.
Luke Burbank: People think of those in the same context. Those are both incredibly big moments for this nation's history.
Elena Passarello: You are the LBJ of public radio.
Luke Burbank: I don't know if I want that title, but okay.
Elena Passarello: So this shrub is an antipodal plant. It's from the Australia area and it's been missing longer than both of us have been alive. But this summer, a horticulturist and bird bander named Aaron Bean was traipsing around a remote area of Queensland and he saw a plant that matched its description. Which, we should pause here to say, this guy knows so much about plants, he could recognize a plant that nobody has seen, probably, as long as he's been alive. That is an encyclopedia, like, plant people are amazing. So he uploaded it to this forum called iNaturalist, which is kind of a community, yeah? Do we have iNaturallist users in the house?
Luke Burbank: I mean it's a public radio crowd, most of these people.
Elena Passarello: Yeah, it's true. Are you on it now?
Luke Burbank: Most of the people met their partners on iNaturalist.
Elena Passarello: That's right. Well, so you guys know about this great citizen scientist website that not only just fans of nature use, but trained botanists use it. And a bunch of experts weighed in after Aaron Bean was like, is this what I think it is? And after a process, they confirmed that, yes, this plant that had thought to be long gone was thriving in this tiny region in, well, I don't know if it was thriving, but at least it was there. [Luke: Wow.] Yeah and I mean for me the best news is about like the folks here who participate in iNaturalist, uh other kind of citizen science forums like what's happening in the Katmai Peninsula with bears and explore.org where people are monitoring wildlife cams. Audubon has all of these opportunities for we have so much more ability to catalog our world because of people who go out and take and upload it. They say that iNaturalist has a hundred four million verified images. So sometimes it's hard to see the internet is doing very much good, that's a generalization, but this is an example of where it's, I think, a wonderful thing that we all can do to make sure we have a great biological picture of our world.
Luke Burbank: Also, if this plant could survive and maybe even be brought back from the brink, there is hope for the plants at my house that I bought from Trader Joe's once on a weird whim that I'll be honest with you, they don't seem like they're doing well.
Elena Passarello: No, yeah, I'm actually getting something from iNaturalist right now. No, a citizen scientist has just put a skull and crossbones on that app about your Trader Joe's claim.
Luke Burbank: The best news that I heard all week actually came from a Live Wire listener named Mark who sent this in. Shout out to Mark. And you know a lot about animals, Elena. In fact, you wrote a great book, Animals Strike Curious Poses. So you probably know that sort of the thought has been that it's a relatively small list of kinds of animals that can use tools. Primates have demonstrated the ability, some birds, also some marine mammals like dolphins, but there's a new animal that we can add to the list. It's a cow named Veronica from Austria.
Elena Passarello: Aww.
Luke Burbank: Who's 10 years old.
Elena Passarello: Aww.
Luke Burbank: And the folks taking care of Veronica noticed that she was really adept at finding things in her natural environment that she could use to scratch her ass with.
Elena Passarello: [Elena laughing]
Luke Burbank: And somebody just said, me too, in the audience. Veronica, are you here?
Luke Burbank: And, but it was so kind of repetitive and like it seemed like there was some intention behind it that they called up some scientists who came out and decided to run this whole study which they just published in the magazine, Current Biology. And they basically set Veronica up with a variety of different like things that she could use to scratch herself. Some of them were kind of, sometimes they had soft bristles, other times they were stiffer. They were different lengths. And the researchers say that Veronica used different parts of the same tool for specific purposes. She even modified her technique, depending on the type of object or the area of her body that she wanted to scratch.
Elena Passarello: And she's holding it in between.
Luke Burbank: In her mouth.
Elena Passarello: Yeah.
Luke Burbank: And like scratching her back with like a long broom with all these different things that they had sort of set up for her.
Elena Passarello: So she, so she also could like, she could do it backwards. Like she could hold the broom in her mouth and feel the broom. Wow.
Luke Burbank: And they think that this is the first time that they've ever seen a cow using tools. And what they think it means is that cow, we may be underestimating or may have underestimated the cognitive capacity of cows. And this is one more thing. The thing about Veronica is, Veronica is a pet. She's not living in one of these, you know, sort of less than great environments that a lot of cattle end up in. She's living in a field. She's not producing meat or milk. She's just hanging out finding things to scratch herself with.
Luke Burbank: Which they think is very good for her cognitive abilities, right? So I also feel like this is a I mean, this is a real W for the cartoonist Gary Larson, who did the far side. It seems like most of the far side cartoons were about an animal using a tool in a way that we didn't expect them to. And we laughed at Gary Larson. And now look who's laughing now. The fact that Veronica is getting a good scratch, that maybe this will lead to us thinking a little bit about how we're treating these cows and being nicer to them, and the fact that Gary Larson is having a great week. That's the best news that I heard all week, my friends. You're listening to Live Wire from PRX. Let's get our first guest on out here. He's a comedian and writer who the New York Times calls one of the most exciting political comics in standup today. He's released multiple comedy specials and is a regular panelist on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. He's also was one of the hosts of the Netflix food show, Snack Versus Chef, where he ate a lot of snacks and then probably needed some medical attention, which is convenient because he's now also the cohost of the new podcast, Health Stuff, where he learns things and hangs out with an actual double board certified. Physician. Please welcome Hari Kondabolu to Live Wire. Hari, welcome back to the show.
Hari Kondabolu: It's nice to be here.
Luke Burbank: I said something to that intro for you that I actually don't know if it is true or not. I said that you were one of the hosts of Snack vs. Chef and that you ate a lot of snacks, but did you?
Hari Kondabolu: Oh yeah.
Luke Burbank: So you had access to the snack.
Hari Kondabolu: Oh, I went, I had lost about 20 pounds to get ready for that show, you know, because it's like I'm hosting a TV show and I want to look good. And then that started a bender that hasn't ended for four years.
Luke Burbank: You could have a lawsuit with Netflix.
Hari Kondabolu: I mean, it was funny because they had a fake Bodega full of chocolate bars and stuff. And we were told not to touch them for continuity's sake. But as soon as the last episode was done, I went nuts. But the thing is, it's a fake Bodega, so they also had Bodega stuff. So they said you could have whatever you wanted. So I was grabbing toilet paper. I was grabbing, I had like deodorant for three years.
Luke Burbank: Like you had a Bodega.
Hari Kondabolu: Exactly. I went for the big money items. It was like a supermarket sweep. I was excited.
Luke Burbank: Is it fun hosting a competition show like that, or is it really long hours and actually more tedious than people might think?
Hari Kondabolu: I mean, it was long hours, and it was very tedious. But it was also really fun. I was hosting with Meg Stalter, who is absolutely brilliant. Some of you might know her from Hacks. But she's a fantastic comedic actress. And I just had so much fun doing that job.
Luke Burbank: Did you learn anything? Like about like can you make some kind of exotic snack preparation now do you know how to make a Reese's peanut butter cup or whatever. From scratch?
Hari Kondabolu: I learned nothing. Nothing was gained other than pounds.
Luke Burbank: Um, so you are hosting this podcast now, um, called health stuff with a doctor named Dr.Priyanka Wali. [Hari: Yes.] Um, how did this end up happening? Did they approach you? Did you pitch this show around? How did you become the, um. The non-doctor on this show.
Hari Kondabolu: They were looking for a co-host for Priyanka. Priyanka had hosted another podcast called HypochondriActor. [Luke: Ok.] So they asked me if I'd be interested, and we did a test run. It went great, and that's it. I got this gig, even though, I mean, here's the thing. If it was a television show, I don't think I would have gotten it, because I'm not particularly healthy. But because it's a podcast, nobody knows.
Luke Burbank: Your co-host Dr. Wali is also, I was on her Instagram page, she's also a stand-up comedian and a practicing medical doctor.
Hari Kondabolu: Yeah, which is. I'm not, man. That's supposed to be your lane. I'm just a stand-up comic. And she's like a stand up comic, a successful one at that. She toured and all that. And then she was like, I'm going to be a doctor again. And then now she's a double board certified doctor. It's very, it's, yeah. My parents I'm sure are like, ah, we got the wrong one.
Luke Burbank: I don't know though, like I was thinking about this, do you want a funny doctor as the patient? You know what I mean? That seems like that could go sideways pretty fast.
Hari Kondabolu: I think it depends on what kind of doctor. Proctologist? No. Dentist? Yeah.
Luke Burbank: You're listening to Live Wire from PRX. We're talking to comedian and podcaster, Hari Kondabolu. We're at Revolution Hall in Portland this week, and we need to take a very quick break, but don't go anywhere. More Live Wire in just a moment. Welcome back to Live Wire from PRX. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. We're talking to comedian and podcaster, Hari Kondabolu. Did you agree to do this Health Stuff podcast because as a comedian, you do not have adequate healthcare and this allows you to talk to a physician with no co-pay on a weekly basis?
Hari Kondabolu: No, but that's brilliant, actually. You know, I mean, especially in some of the early episodes, there is always a section where I'm talking about an ailment I have, like something I pulled something, or I just got a crown put in. There's always something where I am updating the audience on the state of my health. And Priyanka just listens and smiles, and then we move on with the show.
Luke Burbank: You're not able to glean a little free kind of medical advice like while you're sound checking or before the show is happening in real life. You'd be like holding your foot up to Zoom going to...
Hari Kondabolu: Right, right, right.
Luke Burbank: Does this bunion look...problematic.
Hari Kondabolu: Is my pee supposed to be neon?
Luke Burbank: Have you learned anything in the process of co-hosting this that's actually been pretty surprising to you? Just about like the human body or like, you know, things related to medicine?
Hari Kondabolu: Every episode there's always something that shocks me. I mean, this is, we did one about matressants. It's like adolescents, but for the mother when they have a kid, like the big changes that happen both like psychologically, biologically, socially in a woman's life when they a kid. And we were just talking about different countries and how raising a child works and how in certain countries. A child is touched by up to 10 to 15 different human beings during the day because that's how community works. Like you have different people, you know, holding your kid, taking care of your kid giving you a chance to recover from this incredible thing you've just done. And in America, it's not 10 to15 people a day. It's a very different kind of thing. So it's kind of like learning those kinds of things. Like that's unnecessarily like a medical thing, But it's... The show really is about how society affects your health and the bigger issues involving health. The fact that it's not like, if something's happening in your body, that means something's set it up, right? Maybe it's pollution, maybe it's bad food, maybe it's bad water, let's discuss it. I mean, the show's a real laugh fest.
Luke Burbank: It is though, it is though. It's a really nice blend of information and also humor. You were both very funny.
Hari Kondabolu: We do have a fun time with it. I mean, it's hard. Some of the topics are heavy, but like we try to infuse just enough humor where you can like, you know, you're not completely broken by the end of it, like, because some of this stuff is heavy, but it's really a fun show.
Luke Burbank: So, Hari, you're a nationally touring stand-up comedian, and I'm just kind of curious, like, how you feel about the sort of state of stand- up comedy these days. I feel like it's gone through so many shifts. Like, I look at far too much TikTok, but what I see on there a lot is, like everything that's coming out of the stand- up comedy world is either crowd work, it's comedian destroys hecklers, or it's... The scene in Austin where it's like a lot of really seemingly pretty toxic comedy going on this kind of scene down there that's generating a lot the well-known folks or it's just three dudes sitting around on a couch talking in the microphones podcasting It feels like some kind of a weird place. How do you find it?
Hari Kondabolu: Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I think it's I mean crowd work is is a part of the gig. Right. Like if somebody talks or heckles you, you have to address it and make sure you regain control of the show. But the idea that that's all stand up is like, you know, I'm you know I'm doing shows and I've noticed more people are calling out and stuff than they usually do. And it's like, oh, you think you're part of this show, even though I have the microphone and everyone's facing me. So it's a very strange phenomenon and yeah, I mean, I think that scenes go in waves, right? And so right now we're in this whole anti-cancel culture, we can say whatever we want and like this kind of whole vibe, which like is definitely not what I'm necessarily into. It's a lot of people that feel that all these great comics are being canceled. No one's really getting canceled. I mean, the last comic that was canceled was Lenny Bruce. You know what I mean? And he died with a morphine overdose after there was all these court cases that the government, like, that's cancelation. Somebody's saying, hey, maybe don't say that. Like, you're a comic. Then you come up with a joke to address that. I mean that's how this works. It's free speech, right?
Luke Burbank: Do you have any strategies for getting things back on track when you're dealing with hecklers?
Hari Kondabolu: The first thing I do is pause like a second for the audience to digest it and for me to think of something because I think sometimes people just just go start talking, the audience doesn't know what's going on. They don't know what the heckle was they don't see the whole room the way you do so I'd say give it a second to digest it, and then destroy the human being that caused trouble.
Elena Passarello: How do you train to know how to do that?
Luke Burbank: At the London School of Economics and intended to story by the way London School of Economic grad.
Hari Kondabolu: Yes.
Luke Burbank: I always have to brag on your behalf because that's like the coolest academic accomplishment of anyone I know.
Hari Kondabolu: Yeah, it's, I've wasted a lot of money. Is what that tells everybody. I mean, I think it's a fear response, right? Like you're basically an animal in a corner of a room and everyone expects something from you and your jokes are how you stay alive. And if there's a stoppage and there's silence, you have to come up with something, right. So I think, it is a fear of response that forces you . Say something, and sometimes the thing you say is incredibly mean and destroys a human being. But it regains the attention of the room, and that's kind of what we wanted to begin with.
Luke Burbank: We're talking to Hari Kondabolu here on Live Wire this week. I saw something on your Instagram page a couple months ago that I literally thought was one of those Sora AI videos because it was Zohran Mamdani standing in front of a huge crowd of people saying, wait, wait, before I go, I have to take a minute to shout out and honor my friend, Hari Kondabolu. Who believed in me before I even believed in myself. By the way, Zohran Mamdani, the new mayor of New York. You know that guy?
Hari Kondabolu: Yeah. [Luke: That's insane.] I've known Zohran since he was 17 or 18. And he went to my alma mater, Bowdoin College, and his mother had asked me to talk to him just about what the school was gonna be like. And we spoke, and then we kept in touch for his four years in college and after and remained friends. He lived in Seattle for a summer doing internships. So I used to live in Seattle, so I hooked him up with all my cool friends there. You know, he's such a great guy. He asked me to do a fundraiser for his run for assembly when he first ran for assembly before becoming mayor of New York.
Luke Burbank: Yeah, you can't even say it. It's so crazy.
Hari Kondabolu: It's stunning. You know I remember him telling me that he was going to run and I was happy he was gonna run because his values were going to be on display. And the bigger, you know, his campaign got, the more people could hear about here are alternate possibilities for what the future could be in the city. Right, and this is something we're fighting for. I mean, I feel bad, but I didn't think he was going to win. Because there's such a big machine, right, especially in the democratic party, there's a such a machine that prevents candidates like that who are democratic socialists from having a chance of winning. But he's so charismatic, and he's smart, and he is so funny, and understands how to use social media and get, like he's on. Every podcast, he's on every video show, and he's so good in all of them, and he knows how to reach young people, and that's the group that we were trying to mobilize more than anything, instead of worrying about how do we get the middle, you know, there's a bunch of voters on the left that desperately wanna be inspired to vote and to care, and that who he's reaching, and it's unbelievable.
Luke Burbank: Incredible. This is Live Wire Radio. We're talking to Hari Kondabolu. Okay, Hari, you've got this new podcast. It's about various health ailments and struggles that we face as humans. And the co-host of the show is, of course, as we said, a real-life doctor, which is probably for the best. But we were thinking, you know, if RFK Junior can run Health and Human Services, why not give stand-up comic, Hari Kondabolu, a crack at practicing some unlicensed medicine?
Hari Kondabolu: Yeah, I can do this.
Luke Burbank: So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna describe some medical situations and we would like you to try to give us your best guess as to what is going on. But because we really don't want the smoke of doling out questionable human medical advice on Live Wire, take a note, Dr. Oz, we're gonna focus on non-human animals who we're pretty sure aren't gonna hear this anyway. So these are some medical situations with non-humane animals that we would like to get your best guess on what is going on. All right, so Koala comes into your medical practice and is presenting with wheezing and coughing. What would you likely diagnose this koala with, Dr. Kondabolu?
Hari Kondabolu: I mean, based on what I know about colds, there's often sneezing and coughing. And I would prescribe the koala with the appropriate cough syrup, because I'm assuming there must be koala cough syrup?
Luke Burbank: It's the cutest cough syrup out there. It's adorable. They hold it with their little hands.
Elena Passarello: Eucalyptus flavored.
Hari Kondabolu: Eucalyptus flavored, yeah.
Luke Burbank: Uh... Well uh... That would be close the uh... Actual the most likely diagnosis would be chlamydia
Hari Kondabolu: Wow!
Luke Burbank: Three people in the audience were like, yep, checks out.
Hari Kondabolu: Really?
Luke Burbank: Up to 48% of the koala population has chlamydia, and in some parts of Australia, the infection rates are as high as 90%.
Hari Kondabolu: Well, then I'd prescribe condoms, is what I'd prescribe.
Luke Burbank: Adorable little condoms here's a bonus fun koala this is much more fun than the chlamydia one a bonus-fun fact koala fingerprints are so close to humans fingerprints that they could conceivably taint a crime scene.
Hari Kondabolu: Oh, good to know. Useful information.
Luke Burbank: We've taken care of the koala and now the next patient to come into your office, Dr. Kondabolu, is a horned lizard presenting with blood splurting out of its eyeballs. What do we think is going on here?
Hari Kondabolu: I mean this is why you have to make sure you clean your contacts every morning, make sure you put the solution in.
Luke Burbank: Do not go to sleep with them in.
Hari Kondabolu: Do not sleep, clearly this the lizard has dry eyes.
Luke Burbank: Yes. This is apparently a pretty regular thing for this horned lizard, because they do this on the regular. Horned lizards restrict the blood flow to their head until the pressure builds up, rupturing the vessels in their eyelids. They do this as a defense mechanism to confuse their predators.
Hari Kondabolu: It's confusing.
Luke Burbank: Yeah, it seems effective. I would immediately back away from the horned lizard I was about to eat if it did that. All right, how about this? A Colorado snapper fish swims into your office, but its tongue has fallen out, but now there's a new tongue that's growing there. What do we think is going on with this snapperfish, Dr. Kondabolu?
Hari Kondabolu: Um, well clearly it's an alien, like there's no question that's not a snapper fish, that's an alien. This is a...
Elena Passarello: That's close, I think.
Luke Burbank: Yeah, it has been invaded. Its mouth has been invaded by something called a cymothoa exigua, also known as a tongue-eating louse. [Hari: Oh my god.] By the way, this radio show is on right about lunchtime on Saturdays. One of our least popular segments. The louse eats the fish's tongue and then attaches to what's left and is now the fish's new tongue.
Hari Kondabolu: The louse is the new tongue?
Luke Burbank: That sounds like a horror movie.
Hari Kondabolu: Yeah, oh my god. That's almost like the animal version of human centipedes.
Luke Burbank: All right, last one. A female ferret shows up to your office presenting with aggression and high estrogen. What can we do to help this female ferret, Dr. Kondabolu?
Hari Kondabolu: Well, definitely don't talk down to the ferret.
Luke Burbank: Do not, no.
Elena Passarello: Don't tell her to relax.
Hari Kondabolu: Don't tell her to relax, no condescension, just hear out and find out what's going on.
Luke Burbank: Very well handled, Dr. Kondabolu. There's also something very real going on with this ferret, and that is that the ferret needs to mate. And if the ferret does not mate, there is a 30% chance she will die.
Hari Kondabolu: Oh, my God.
Elena Passarello: That would be such a good half-ROM-com, half-action movie. You know? Like, speed meets how to lose a guy in 10 days.
Hari Kondabolu: If I don't have sex, I am going to die.
Elena Passarello: Also, I'm a ferret.
Luke Burbank: Well, Hari Kondabolu, great job on our little exercise. You got none of them right, but it was still a great effort. Hari Kondabolu. Thanks, everybody. Thanks for coming on Live Wire. That was Hari Kondabolu right here on Live Wire. Make sure you check out Hari's new podcast, Health Stuff, wherever you cast your pods. This is Live Wire. Okay, our next guests are an actual pair of best friends in real life. In fact, they were voted most likely to make you laugh at their high school. But the amazing thing is, they've actually delivered on that promise by co-hosting the very wonderful podcast, Text Me Back, which blends the news and their lives and their text threads and their meditations on pop culture, meditations that run. And weird, but like, you know, in an entertaining way. Let's take a listen to Lindy West and Meagan Hatcher-Mays recorded live at Benaroya Hall in Seattle back in December. Meagan and Lindy, welcome to Live Wire.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays & Lindy West: Thank you for having us! Thanks for having us! What an honor!
Luke Burbank: I am such an enormous fan of Text Me Back. It is just the best listen. I'm wondering what a typical session of your podcast is like from a recording standpoint, how detailed of a plan are you going in with? Because I also, I host a podcast that's kind of a chat show and I think people would be surprised at how much planning can go into something that sounds very casual. Where are you guys at on the spectrum of preparation on Text Me back?
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Oh boy. On the topic of planning, thanks for asking. Actually, we were just talking about this on the way over here. Lindy loves to text me and be like, I have a segment idea. Okay. My car is kind of dirty.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: That's like not a segment idea, that's just like a sentence you thought of. Do you know what I mean? But that's like the extent of the planning, I would say. We have a wonderful producer who's like, Okay, guys, we need to have a production meeting, and we need to have a planning document where you put your segment ideas for every episode in the document. And so we faithfully, every week, will write in the documents, snakes.
Lindy West: Yeah, or I mean, truly, well, first of all, no, we won't, because can I keep track of that bookmark where the document is?
Luke Burbank: No. Oh, forget it.
Lindy West: She doesn't have the...
Luke Burbank: Is it at Google Doc? I need to just take a moment and say we need to, as a nation, consider our reliance on Google Docs and how often they let me down. It is constantly trying to log me in as some Gmail burner account of mine that I started to try to get 10% off of... something on Instagram.
Lindy West: It'll be like, anonymous dog. And then Google's like, that's you. You're the meerkat.
Luke Burbank: Yeah, right.
Lindy West: Oh, but to answer your original question, no, there's no planning.
Luke Burbank: You crack the microphone, start talking.
Lindy West: And then I'll be like, real quick, before we get started on snake, I got a bone to pick with archeology. They keep digging stuff up, but it just looks like rocks. And then, like, it's literally... That's the show, and then the show's over.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Or like, oh, here's Lindy's stupidest hyperfixation yet. How do seals sleep at night? And that doesn't require a lot of pre-planning.
Luke Burbank: We're talking to Lindy West and Meagan Hatcher-Mays about their podcast, Text Me Back. Meagan, you and Lindy have been best friends for over 20 years. You know each other very well. We were curious though this week to see if you know each well enough to break into each other's online accounts. We wanna play a little game called Password Reset.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: I'm so stressed out.
Luke Burbank: This is how this is going to work. Before the show, we asked each of you a set of actual security questions that internet websites ask you to verify your identity. You know, like Mother's Maid name, stuff like that.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Congratulations to the producers of Live Wire for getting my bank account information. [Luke:Yes.] Well done.
Luke Burbank: And what we want to see is if you are able to guess the answers that your podcast partner would give to these very personal security questions, these are real security questions from real institutions that we have checked in on. So Meagan, let's start with you. If you were to try to hack into Lindy's US bank account, you would need to be able to answer the security question that Lindy has filled out, which is. What place are you least likely to visit? What is the place that you think Lindy is least likely to visit?
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Um, she doesn't want to go somewhere hot, so I'm going to.
Luke Burbank: It's in the name.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Oh, hot springs! Is that a place?
Luke Burbank: It is.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: But that's not it. Hot.
Luke Burbank: A place that is both actually temperature warm and also culminates in a pyrotechnic event.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Disney World?
Luke Burbank: Ideally...
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Oh my god! Oh, that is the worst place I can imagine! Oh, the vibe of it is even worse than the weather!
Lindy West: Can you imagine? Can you imagine me writhing? [Meagan: Writhing.] I don't think so.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: The nudity, the mud.
Lindy West: I almost put business school. But then I wasn't sure if that counted as a place.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Dude, somebody gave birth at Burning Man last year and I said oh.
Luke Burbank: I would imagine that is a not infrequent sort of event there.
Lindy West: Oh, Burning Man, the baby came out hula-hooping, it didn't, and with the freaking...
Elena Passarello: Devil sticks.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Thank you.
Luke Burbank: All right, Lindy.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: I'm scared.
Luke Burbank: If you were trying to hack into Meagan's personal information on the California franchise tax board, a place we know Meagan does a lot of online.
Lindy West: Or as I like to call it, Tuesday.
Luke Burbank: Okay, this is a real question. What song do you think you could have sung better than the original singer? That is a question that Meagan has answered for the California Franchise Tax Board. What do you Meagan's answer to that was? What song could she have sung better than the originally singer?
Lindy West: A lot of people don't know this about Meagan, but she's a karaoke champion. Meagan's karaoke performance deserves a Nobel Prize. And Meagan used to be the karaoke host at Busch Gardens.
Luke Burbank: No way!
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: No, it wasn't at Busch Gardens, but it was owned by, it was like a co, I got recruited.
Luke Burbank: No, because the guy at Busch Gardens had that Superman necklace on and would often sing the same song someone just did, which was not cool.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Or is it the greatest power move you've ever seen in your life? I know I got recruited to host karaoke at Tony's Sports Bar at Busch Gardens and Tony would be like, is it cool if we just show you the check and then give you cash? And I was like, I don't know what this is, but I feel like we shouldn't talk to the IRS about it.
Lindy West: Well clearly I never went because I was still shy and I'm gonna pick one of Meagan's karaoke classics. Even though I don't know how to answer this question, but I'm going to pick Welcome to The Jungle.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Before you read the answer, I'm so mad at myself because I had that written down. And then I thought, well, it's not that I can sing it better than Axl Rose, I've made a last minute change. So I would like to say that spiritually you did get that correct.
Lindy West: I would have, my other thing I was gonna guess was a Journey song, but I know you would never have the hubris.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: No, never. I would never step to Steve Perry in that.
Luke Burbank: We're going to give you a half point on the Guns N' Roses, the actual answer from Meagan Hatcher Mays. What song do you think you could have sung better than the original singer? Any Bob Dylan song.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Yeah, suck it. I don't know why the boomers have been trying to shove Bob Dylan down our throats for the last 60 years, but this man sucks!
Luke Burbank: Well, what about...
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: He sounds like an old tin can and not in a good way.
Luke Burbank: Meagan, if there were some sort of a national emergency you needed to hack into Lindy's Vanguard account. And you were trying to guess some of her security questions, what would your answer be to this security question that Lindy has answered? What brand of shampoo do you use? What brand shampoo does Lindy use that she would have listed as her answer to a security question from Vanguard?
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Can I, but I'll just preface this really quickly by saying like, Lindy has beautiful, glowing skin, right? And people will come up to her and be like, Oh my God, what is your skincare routine? And she's like, antibacterial dial soap from, from the dishwasher or whatever.
Luke Burbank: Okay, Meagan, I would say keep going with that line of reasoning.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: So I just really feel like her shampoo is probably like an eight in one. It's got to be like a per plus situation. I'm going to respectfully say like Pantene Pro-V.
Luke Burbank: We're going to accept that the actual answer, the security answer for Lindy's Vanguard account of what shampoo she uses was quote, the dregs of whatever bottle someone left in the shower.
Lindy West: I was like she's gonna get it actually maybe when you started that monologue.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Yeah, I should have just said, whatever's in your shower. Because I feel like you don't even buy shampoo.
Lindy West: Oh, no. What's the need? You can always add more water. Shake it up.
Luke Burbank: All right, last one, Lindy. When Meagan set up her Yahoo account, they asked her this security question. And this is a fairly standard one, but we were wondering if you could guess it. What is the name of your pet? We're wondering if can you guess the answer that Meagan gave. What is it?
Lindy West: Well, no, it's very hard because Meagan is a famous animal hoarder.
Luke Burbank: I'm going to give you two points for that, because that is exactly what the answer is. I have a list of over 20 pets in front of me.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: No, literally, they sent me the thing and it was like, name all your pets and roughly the years you had them. And I had to go back to like 1984 being like.
Luke Burbank: You did, that was Gremlin, a Cocker Spaniel, 85 to 87, re-homed.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Well, she hasn't guessed yet! Don't give her the answers! But no, but so that I had to send them a bulleted list of like 30 guys!
Luke Burbank: Otis, cat with mental illness. 1984, question mark. Hank Chihuahua and my one true love. Rest in power.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: My godson. He was born in a basement apartment across the street from the Urban Outfitters on Broadway.
Luke Burbank: It sounds like a Bob Dylan sign. Ozzy, a Papillon with severe anxiety and dissociative disorder, born 2008. I actually did not name the one that was officially the answer, so you still have a chance.
Lindy West: Hank, Marge. [Luke: No.] Uh, Eleanor the cat. Um.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Oh, I did. I forgot to put it.
Lindy West: What about Coco?
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: She wasn't my dog, she's my brother's dog. Well, you remember your favorite one, your favorite girl.
Lindy West: Oh, Brenda. Of course, baby Brenda.
Luke Burbank: No, it's not Brenda.
Lindy West: It's not, Brenda? What's the answer?
Luke Burbank: It is Tigger, a cat of an ordinary size.
Meagan Hatcher-Mays: Well, you were the one who said it. You were like, is he half Bobcat? What's wrong with him?
Luke Burbank: There you go. Meagan Hatcher-Mayes, Lindy West. The show is Text Me Back. Thank you for coming on Live Wire. That was Lindy West and Meagan Hatcher-Mays, recorded live at Benaroya Hall in Seattle back in December. You can check out their podcast, text me back wherever you get your podcasts. This is Live Wire. We've got to take a very quick break, but stay right where you are, because when we return, we will hear some music from the one and only John Craigie. Stick around, more Live Wire in just a moment. Welcome back to Live Wire. I'm your host, Luke Burbank. Okay, before we get to this week's musical performance from John Craigie, how about a little preview of what we're doing on the show next week? We are gonna be talking to the writer and co-host of the award-winning podcast, Scamfluencers, Scaachi Koul, about her newest book of essays, Sucker Punch. It's just a brutally honest and yet hilarious account of what happens when everything you know and maybe once loved veers just completely off course. Also known as Getting Divorced. Then we're gonna hear some poetry and some music from multidisciplinary artist Emma Ruth Rundle. Her work is both chilling and beautiful and includes her latest poetry collection which is called the Bella Vista. You can catch that all next week right here on Live Wire. In the meantime, our musical guest this week has graced the bills of the Newport Folk Festival, Pickathon, the High Sierra Music Festival, and is one of our very favorite. Musicians right here on Live Wire. His latest album is I Swam Here and he played us a track for at a special event that we held next to a vineyard at Domaine Drouhin, Oregon back in September of last year. Check this out. John Craigie, welcome to Live Wire.
John Craigie: Thank you. Good to be here.
Luke Burbank: Name of your latest album is Greatest Hits, Just Kidding, Live, No Hits. And I'm wondering where is the line between self-deprecation and cripplingly low self-esteem? Because it is a line that I walk myself often.
John Craigie: You sound like my therapist. That's a good question. You would ask me.
Luke Burbank: Like, I mean, really, like, you obviously are very self-deprecating, but why did you choose this particular title for the album?
John Craigie: My first live album I released right after I signed on with my manager and he has a good sense of humor but he's also a manager trying to make my career efficient and successful and I'm often in the way of that. And he said, what do you want to call this and I think he said should we call it Live in Portland and I said that's too boring. So the album is called Capricorn in retrograde, just kidding, Live in Portland. And he hated that so much. And so, my second live album was just called Live Opening for Steinbeck, which is a lot simpler. He was okay with that. But he was getting too comfortable, so I wanted my third live album to be similar in the Just Kidding realm.
Luke Burbank: I see.
John Craigie: He's okay with it.
Luke Burbank: That's sort of the Craig-y brand at this point.
John Craigie: I hope so, yeah.
Luke Burbank: What are the songs on there? How did you choose them?
John Craigie: For the live albums, I tend to choose songs that have some sort of audience participation-ness or maybe they're a little funnier than a studio recording. Yeah, I think to get the stories captured is the main purpose for that.
Luke Burbank: Something that you said on this album to the live audience assembled was that the longer that you have been playing music, the more shy you felt. Yeah, yeah. I didn't think that was the direction that that would typically go in.
John Craigie: I know, but they told me I would get more outgoing and cooler, and it has not been the case. Maybe it'll swing back around, and I'll just back to my normal awkward 14-year-old self. But that's the goal now, just to get back to that.
Luke Burbank: So is that like, when you say more shy, is it the, do you feel nervous before the show or you maybe feel a little uncomfortable with the kind of interacting at the merch table? What is the part of it where you feel more shy?
John Craigie: The whole thing, but I think in the early days, you really want people to pay attention to you. You know, you are in the coffee shop. They didn't come there to see you, and so you're trying to get, hey, look at me, look at, and then at some point they come and they start looking at you and then they can get really intense and then there, you know, saying weird things to you and they have a tattoo of something, that's yours on them and you don't know what to say. And then I think it can drive you a little more inward. So that might be sort of like the boomerang effect. I don't know. But I also never was born to be out that outgoing, I don't think.
Luke Burbank: It's surprising how many people I interview for Live Wire who are performers who are actually pretty introverted, considering that the thing they're doing kind of demands an audience. That's a pretty typical personality type.
John Craigie: I think it is a misnomer that a musician would be outgoing. I think one of the reasons we choose this is that it is, at a party, if you're the one playing music, then you don't have to talk to people. And at a show, I come out, I do the thing, I get comfortable with that thing. It's hard at first, but you do it, and then you can run backstage. So it is ideal for an introvert, even though it sounds sort of counter.
Luke Burbank: This is Live Wire Radio from PRX. We are at Domaine Drouhin this week with John Craigie. His latest album is Greatest Hits. Just kidding, live, no hits. I'm wondering how your songs are, the music is great and also the lyrics are always so engaging. Kind of what tends to come first for you? How do you create a song?
John Craigie: Lyrics always. I'm not that comfortable with the music part. It's something that's hard for me.
Luke Burbank: So you're getting more shy and you're not comfortable playing the music. But other than that.
John Craigie: It sounds like it's going pretty well. I was never comfortable with the music part. Music's art. I don't know if you guys have tried it.
Luke Burbank: I mean, are you essentially a writer who figured out that if you added some music to the background, it would go over better?
John Craigie: Yes, you have cracked my secret code, yeah.
Luke Burbank: I will talk with you about some music, John Craigie, everybody.
John Craigie: I'd like to do a new song for you now, and that's the seven words you'd never want to hear at a show. I have a new album coming out. This song is called Fire Season, I haven't played it out much, so let's hear it.
John Craigie: [John Craigie performs "Fire Season"]
Luke Burbank: That was John Craigie, right here on Live Wire, recorded at a special event we held at Domaine Drouhin, Oregon. All right, that's gonna do it for this week's episode of Live Wire. A huge thanks to our guests, Hari Kondabolu, Lindy West, Meagan Hatcher-Mays, and John Craigie. Also special thanks this episode to David Millman and all the wonderful folks over at Domaine Drouhin Oregon.
Elena Passarello: Laura Hadden is our executive producer. Heather de Michele is our Executive Director, and our producer and editor is Melanie Sevcenko. Eben Hoffer is our Technical Director. Tré Hester is our Assistant Editor. Valentine Keck is our Operations Manager and Ashley Park is our Marketing Manager.
Luke Burbank: Our House Sound is by Aaron Tomasko, and our house band is Sam Pinkerton, Ayal Alves, Ethan Fox Tucker, and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music. This show is mixed by Eben Hoffer and Tré Hester.
Elena Passarello: Funding provided by the Oregon Arts Commission, a state agency funded by the state of Oregon and the National Endowment for the Arts. Live Wire was created by Robyn Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff.
Luke Burbank: This week, we'd like to thank Live Wire members and actual friends of mine, James Gochee & Cara Turano of Portland, Oregon. For more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast, head on over to livewireradio.org. I'm Luke Burbank, for Elena Passarello, and the whole Live Wire crew. Thank you for listening and we will see you next week.
PRX.
Staff Credits
Laura Hadden is our Executive Producer, Heather de Michele is our Executive Director, and our Producer and Editor is Melanie Sevcenko. Eben Hoffer is our Technical Director. Tré Hester is our Assistant Editor. Valentine Keck is our Operations Manager, Ashley Park is our Marketing Manager, and Andrea Castro-Martinez is our Marketing Associate. Our house sound is by Aaron Tomasko. Our house band is Sam Pinkerton, Ayal Alvez, Ethan Fox Tucker, and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music. This show was mixed by Eben Hoffer and Tré Hester. Special thanks this episode to David Millman and all the wonderful folks over at Domain Drouhin Oregon. Additional funding provided by The Oregon Arts Commission, a state agency funded by the State of Oregon and the National Endowment for the Arts. Live Wire was created by Robyn Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff. This week, we'd like to thank members James Gochee and Cara Turano of Portland, OR.
