Episode 594
with Ari Shapiro and Demi Adejuyigbe
Ari Shapiro, journalist and co-host of All Things Considered, unpacks his new book The Best Strangers in the World: Stories From a Life Spent Listening, which chronicles his reporting adventures across the globe, from Air Force One to the stage of the Hollywood Bowl; comedian and TV writer Demi Adejuyigbe explains how the WGA strike afforded him so much free time...to go to the Renaissance Faire. Plus, host Luke Burbank and Elena Passarello share stories of the most amazing strangers our listeners have encountered.
Ari Shapiro
American radio journalist and author
Ari Shapiro is a beloved American radio journalist. He became one of four rotating hosts on NPR's flagship drive-time program All Things Considered, and served as the White House correspondent and international correspondent based in London for NPR. The Advocate magazine has named Ari Shapiro one of its "40 under 40" LGBT leaders, and Out magazine included him in its "Out 100" list of the most influential LGBT people in America. He has written a stirring memoir-in-essays that is also a love letter to journalism. In his first book, The Best Strangers in the World: Stories From a Life Spent Listening, Shapiro takes us around the globe to reveal the stories behind narratives that are sometimes heartwarming, sometimes heartbreaking, but always poignant. He details his time traveling on Air Force One with President Obama, or following the path of Syrian refugees fleeing war, or learning from those fighting for social justice both at home and abroad. He has also been known to burst into song and has performed with the musical group Pink Martini. Website • Instagram • Twitter
Demi Adejuyigbe
Humor writer, podcaster, and performer
Demi Adejuyigbe is a writer, filmmaker, comedian, performer, and a Live Wire favorite. While most know him as a co-host of the comedy podcasts Gilmore Guys and Punch Up the Jam, or as the creator behind the 21st of September video series, he also was a digital producer on Comedy Central's @midnight, and has written for The New Yorker, The Guardian, Pitchfork, Marvel, Cartoon Network, MTV, The Late Late Show with James Corden, and The Amber Ruffin Show, as well as episodes of the Marvel TV series, New Warriors. He is a writer/supervising producer on the animated Apple+ series Strange Planet. He co-hosts the monthly comedy show Everything’s Great at Dynasty Typewriter. Website • Instagram • Twitter
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Luke Burbank: Hey, Elena.
Elena Passarello: Hey, Luke. How's it going?
Luke Burbank: It's going alright. I have some intrusive cat energy here in this room where I'm recording from. So we're going to try to keep Bubbles Burbank at bay.
Elena Passarello: Maybe she's like Lucille Ball. She's like, Why don't you put me in the show?
Luke Burbank: No, but I'm mentioning her enough as it is. But are you ready for a little station location identification examination?
Elena Passarello: Oh, yeah.
Luke Burbank: This is where I quiz Elena about a place in the country where Live Wire is on the radio, she's got to guess where I am talking about. All right, This city is located on Bear Lake, which many folks call the Rocky Mountain Caribbean because of the blue waters of Bear Lake.
Elena Passarello: Well, that's a good geographical indicator, but it only narrows it down to like five states.
Luke Burbank: This will help you. This will zero in on the state. I believe the city was founded by Mormon settlers in 1859.
Elena Passarello: Is it Provo, Utah?
Luke Burbank: It is in Utah. It's not Provo and it's not Salt Lake City, so...
Elena Passarello: Logan, Utah.
Luke Burbank: You..Logan Utah's exactly right. Well, that was an effective hint I gave you. We are on the radio, on Utah Public Radio, on K U S R there in beautiful Logan, Utah. All right. Are you ready to get to the show?
Elena Passarello: Let's do it.
Luke Burbank: All right. Take it away.
Elena Passarello: From PRX. It's LIVE WIRE! This week, radio journalist and author Ari Shapiro.
Ari Shapiro: There are very specific chapters in here for the Jews, the gays, the music fans, the journalists, the political junkies, the international affairs people. I was like, I can flag a chapter like If you're a Jew, read this one.
Elena Passarello: And comedian and writer Demi Adejuyigbe.
Demi Adejuyigbe: I don't know when this happened, but I feel like there's been this shift in so much stuff that as a kid was like shorthand for nerd stuff that now is like, well, all the cool kids are going to the Renaissance fair.
Elena Passarello: With music from our fabulous house band. I'm your announcer Elena Passarello, and now the host of Live Wire Luke Burbank.
Luke Burbank: Thank you, Elena Passarello. Thanks, everyone, for tuning in from all over the country, including beautiful Logan, Utah. We have a really fun, interesting show in store for you all this week. Of course, we've asked the Live Wire listeners a question. We asked, What is the best stranger you've ever met? Could you tell us about that person? This is related to Ari Shapiro's really fascinating book about his time as a journalist. We're going to read those responses coming up in a few moments. First, though, we got to kick things off with the best news we heard all week this. This, of course, is our a little reminder at the top of the show. There is some good news happening out there in the world. Elena, what is the best news you heard all week?
Elena Passarello: Oh, this news comes from Texas Hill Country. When I lived there, I used to go on Sunday drives to the Hill country. And that is exactly what happened 30 years ago when Ronnie and Terry Urbanczyk. Ronnie runs a concrete company in San Antonio. They were taking a Sunday drive through the Hill country and they saw a for sale sign, this beautiful stretch of land, 250 acres with live oaks. And it swooped down to the Guadalupe River, and there was a gorgeous creek on the property called Honey Creek. And so they decided to buy it. They moved their whole family out there. I think there's like five of them. And they lived in a 600 square foot house. And slowly but surely they added more and more land to their property so that now they have over 750 acres and it sort of backs up to a natural area and a state park. And they had this idea that they could take care of their family for generations if they built a big subdivision on it, because as you probably know, both San Antonio and Austin are really spreading into the Hill country. Yes. So they tried to do that. There's like a 2400 home subdivision and they ran into a lot of environmental issues because they didn't know this. But they learned that the that watershed, that creek, that river, it's just super pristine. It's also very important that it get protected for the natural flora and fauna that lived there, like the Golden cheeked Warbler and the blind salamander.
Luke Burbank: The golden cheek warbler definitely sounds like something. You would write an article for the Audubon Magazine about.
Elena Passarello: I thought they won the NBA championships, the Golden Cheek Warblers. But yeah, so they ran into all these issues. And then the Texas Park and Wildlife and the Nature Conservancy started working together and they got the Urbanczyk family to agree to sell the land to them. And they sold it at a fifth of what they would make had they sold it to developers.
Luke Burbank: Wow.
Elena Passarello: It will join the natural area and the state park to make this massive 5000 acre state park with a ton of public use. There's an underground river and caves, and they were a little worried because, you know, their children had grown up in this area and it was kind of their legacy. And they called the kids and they were like, will it be okay if we didn't make this major deal? And the kids told them, quote, How much money does somebody need? Because a fifth of the sale price is still like $25 million.
Luke Burbank: Okay.
Elena Passarello: Even happier news. Their backyard is now like the prettiest park in the world. And the Texas legislature just passed $1,000,000,000 allotment for buying new parkland. So all y'all Texans out there who are thinking about putting up another Home Depot or whatever, you might try to work with these national organizations because they can make something even more beautiful, even more lasting, and something that does even more good for public interest.
Luke Burbank: It's actually kind of coincidental, Elena, that you're talking about these conservancies and land trusts, because a place where I help out every year with some hosting duties is the Jefferson County Land Trust up in Jefferson County, Washington, where they do really great work working with landowners and others to preserve those natural corridors and stuff. And the best news that I saw this week also comes out of Jefferson County, specifically my old stomps of Port Townsend, Washington, where I don't think there's a more lovely place to be on a sunny summer day than Port Townsend, Washington. The thing is, one of the main ways to get there is on this ferry that goes from another place called Coupeville and comes on over to Port Townsend. And a bunch of folks were enjoying Port Townsend recently. And some of them had walked on to the ferry and then been tooling around Port Townsend. When they got back to the ferry terminal, they learned that because of some weather stuff, all of the return trips back to where their cars and their campsites and their hotels were were canceled. And so because it was a beautiful summer day in Port Townsend, everything was booked. They called the hotels, they called the Airbnbs, they called the sheriff's department, and they also called the YMCA, which I used to live in Port Townsend. I don't think I even knew we had a YMCA and they could not find anywhere to stay. And they were really despairing because they were thinking about just trying to sleep in the like, little waiting area for the ferry, which it turns out is not allowed. The Washington State Ferries wanted to clarify that. So enter William B.G. Patterson and his wife, Ariana Patterson, who he had just called to ask if it would be okay with her if he brought home some some stranded passengers (Ten People). Right, honey? Would it be okay if I brought home ten people who are trapped here waiting for the ferry? She said yes. So he brings them home now. One of the. Problems was they have two bathrooms. One of them was under construction. So the only way to get to the one functioning bathroom was to go through their bedroom. And they just. They just said to everyone, we don't mind if you don't. And everybody just like just made their peace with it. Just, you know, Got some blankets. They threw out some, you know, pads. And some people were on the floors and people were on couches. The next morning, BG gets up real early and then goes down to the restaurant that he and Arianna have owned for all these years. One of my favorite places out there in Chimacum, it's called Farms Reach Cafe. He goes down to Farms Reach, whips up some pastries and makes a big pot of coffee and brings it back. Everybody gets up and gets their pastries and their coffee and they get back in the car and they head back to the ferry terminal, which mercifully now was functioning well. (Oh, good.) And they all got on the boat and got back on to wherever they were going.
Elena Passarello: Oh, bless his heart. That's amazing.
Luke Burbank: I know. So people taking care of other people in my old hometown of Port Townsend, Washington. That's the best news that I heard this week. All right. Let's get our first guest on over here. You're probably used to hearing their voice on this very radio station because he is, of course, one of the hosts of NPR's afternoon program, All Things Considered. His first book, The Best Strangers in the World Stories from a Life Spent Listening details his time traveling on Air Force One with President Obama following the path of Syrian refugees fleeing war, and also what it's like to sing in front of 18,000 people at the Hollywood Bowl with the music group Pink Martini. Because let me tell you, this guy has range. Take a listen to our conversation with Ari Shapiro, recorded live at the Alberta Rose Theater right here in Portland.
Ari Shapiro: You all look nothing like what I imagined either. That old radio line.
Luke Burbank: It's so nice to see you!
Ari Shapiro: You know, the last time you and I saw each other, neither of us had gray hair.
Luke Burbank: I know, but you somehow are so much more well-preserved than I am.
Ari Shapiro: And yet you're much more well dressed than I am. Which is why I know matters a lot on the radio.
Luke Burbank: It's the corset, really, I think. It is really nice to see you. Ari, you and I worked at NPR together a long time ago, and we're kind of sort of both young reporters trying to find a full time job there, kind of make it work in.
Ari Shapiro: Filling in for this person on maternity leave, that person on an academic fellowship, just kind of popping in wherever we could.
Luke Burbank: Those parts of the book. And by the way, there's something for everyone in this book, but the parts that were specifically about being a reporter at NPR trying to find a budget line that really spoke to me. So thank you for that.
Ari Shapiro: It's funny, as I was working on the book and having conversations about who it would appeal to, I said, You know, I want this to be a book for everyone. But also there are very specific chapters in here for the Jews, the gays, the music fans, the journalists, the political junkies, the international affairs people. I was like, so like, I can flag a chapter. Like if you're a Jew, read this one. If you're if you're a music fan, read that one. Yeah.
Luke Burbank: I was curious, though, when I started reading it, because you are a real journalist. You're one of the hosts of All Things Considered. I want the radio audience to know I did not put air quotes around real. I pointed at Ari so everyone knew who I was talking to. But like, you're a real journalist. So did you have to be careful about sort of what you put in this book?
Ari Shapiro: Oh, totally. I mean, like there's one chapter. Speaking of Jews, there's one chapter that I titled The Third Rail of Journalism. And it's all about covering the war in Israel. And I thought, you know, like every journalist knows that if you're reporting on Israel, there's you can't win. Like you are walking into something where people will be furious at you no matter what you do. And so I thought, Ari, are you really not only writing a chapter in this book about covering Israel, but writing about your personal experience and perspective on covering Israel as a Jew? Like, what are you thinking? And there were a lot of moments like that. You know, I talk about in 2004, my husband and I got married when San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, he's now the governor of California, but he was then mayor of San Francisco and he just decided he was going to start doing same sex marriages, which was a huge national controversy at the time. And my now husband, who had been my college boyfriend and I wanted to go get married. And, you know, you and I were both beginning journalists back in those days. And it's like you're stepping into the middle of the culture wars and participating in them rather than chronicling them, which is what we as journalists think we're supposed to be doing. And so it felt really kind of uncomfortable and foreign and strange writing this memoir, where I'm revisiting some of these experiences and talking about it from the inside looking out.
Luke Burbank: You write in the book that you came out while you were a student at Beaverton High School right here in the greater Portland, Oregon area, and that you might have been possibly the first student to have done so.
Ari Shapiro: I mean, I have no way of confirming. I don't know if there were out students prior to my senior year in 1995. I wasn't aware of any there weren't any at the time that I was there. But what there was in Portland, Oregon, in the nineties was the City nightclub, which some of you may be aware was, I believe at the time, the only all ages gay club in the United States. Yeah. So like, my friends and I would go there, just doused in CK One.
Luke Burbank: By the way, you mentioned that in the book and it hurt because I stopped wearing CK One like four years ago. Like that was a punchline in the book. And I saw way too much of myself.
Ari Shapiro: Well, you know In the book I describe it as the nonbinary scent of the nineties, but we didn't even have that term. It was it was the unisex scent of the nineties.
Luke Burbank: We have to take a quick break here on Live Wire. We're talking to Ari Shapiro. His book is The Best Strangers in the World. This is Live Wire coming from the Alberta Rose Theater. Stay with us. We'll be right back in a moment. Welcome back to Live Wire from PRX. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. We're at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland. This week, we're talking to Ari Shapiro from NPR's All Things Considered. He has a book out, The Best Strangers in the World Stories From a Life Spent Listening. Do you feel like there is you're from Portland? Is there a Portland ness to how you approach journalism, how you approach, you know, your singing career? Just like, did this place infuse you with with anything that you carry with you?
Ari Shapiro: Well, Portland taught me how to relate to people who are different from me, you know, especially after I came out in 1995. I started going to this queer youth group where suddenly I was surrounded by people who might have been struggling with addiction or homelessness or doing sex work to get by or like way, way outside of my suburban bubble of privilege and being able to kind of walk between those worlds and on the weekends hang out with like, you know, the gutter punks and the butch baby bull dyke gang. And like, those were my posse on the weekends. And then I...
Luke Burbank: Maybe the first time Butch Baby Bull Dyke gang has ever been said on Live Wire.
Ari Shapiro: You know, there was a girl in that gang who everyone called Julie the junkie. And she gave me a leather dog collar and wrist cuff as, like, a sign of protection that I still have to this day. That's true. And so I feel like being able to walk between worlds, go from that world on the weekends to kind of my schedule of AP classes in my big suburban white high school on the weekdays. That taught me something about kind of being an ambassador and a translator that I use as a journalist now for groups that I don't necessarily have any personal connection to. But if I'm going into Zimbabwe to a presidential election rally or I'm going to a Bikers for Trump rally or I'm going to a refugee crisis. Like those skills of walking between worlds are something that I picked up in Portland that I use every day as a journalist.
Luke Burbank: Something else you mention in this book? Yeah, I think that's worth a round of applause. He doesn't get that at his real job at NPR.
Ari Shapiro: Does nobody hear people clap when I'm on the radio?
Luke Burbank: The producers of All Things Considered don't come in and applaud on you after you do an interview. (No, no.) Something that you mentioned in this book that I had never thought of, even though I grew up in the Northwest, was that we call it the coast. We do not call it the beach because you write.
Ari Shapiro: I say it's to discourage false hopes of a warm, sunny day. You know, if you call it the beach, people are going to get images of Mai Tais and hula dancers. And that is not what Oregon has to offer. Yeah.
Luke Burbank: No, it's the coasts. It's definitely the coasts. Know that it's probably going to be raining at Yachats, or wherever you're going.
Ari Shapiro: But you'll get great Dungeness crab.
Elena Passarello: That's right.
Luke Burbank: You write in the book about how in college you were really you were in the a cappella group. You were really into theater performance. You thought about maybe being an actor. How did you end up in journalism? That didn't seem like it was something that was on your radar?
Ari Shapiro: Not a bit. It was totally random. Like I was graduating from college and I applied to literally everything I could think of because I was an English major and didn't know what I wanted to do. Like, I had never taken a journalism class. I had never written for the school paper. I applied for Club Med. I applied for the Peace Corps. I applied for an NPR internship. I got rejected for literally everything, including the NPR internship, which I think is important to talk about, because if you think failure like is something that doesn't happen to successful people, well. NPR's Ari Shapiro was rejected for an NPR internship. Yeah. So failure happens to everyone. If you're failing, you're doing it right. And then I found out that Nina Totenberg, the legendary legal affairs correspondent who remains a good friend and mentor, hires her own interns. So I applied to her. She gave me a job and I just clung on and never left. And 20 some years later. Here I am.
Luke Burbank: We're talking to Ari Shapiro, by the way. His new book is The Best Strangers in the World. This is Live Wire. Did you actually try to get a sort of permanent real job in D.C. by cooking an elaborate meal? (I did.) At Nina Totenberg's house
Ari Shapiro: It was Nina's idea!
Luke Burbank: WIth like Charles Dingle or something?
Ari Shapiro: Yeah, yes, exactly. Correct. So my internship was ending. I had no job prospects. Nina knew that I love to cook and I was living in this teeny little one room apartment that I shared with a lesbian I found on Craigslist. Not that part of Craigslist. And Nina said, Hey, you love to cook and you're looking for a job. Why don't I hire you to throw a dinner party where you'll cook and also be a guest? And I'll invite all of these kind of Washington VIPs who could, like, plausibly offer you a job. So she invited Congressman John Dingell before he died, his wife, who later took the seat, Debbie Dingell, the former deputy attorney general, Jamie Gorelick, like this really impressive list of Washingtonians. I spent all day at Nina's house cooking and then sat down at the dinner table and Nina said, All right, well, this is my intern, Ari. He cooked the food you just ate. He's looking for a job and not as a chef. Which one of you is going to hire him? And there were crickets. So I stayed at NPR.
Luke Burbank: I love the idea of imagining Nina recounting that dinner. Congressman Dingell, no comment. Okay. So I know you sing with Pink Martini, which is an incredibly cool thing and very like I'll say, you're probably one of the only NPR hosts that sings with Pink Martini on a regular basis. It's a pretty cool thing, but I just assumed that, like, you're from Portland. They're from Portland. You're this famous NPR person. They're a famous band. You all came together in your fame. But that is not really what happened, like you go way back.
Ari Shapiro: Yeah, like I was a fan of theirs when I was in high school, and I became friends with them after college. But at the point that I started singing with them, I was certainly not famous like I was on the air at NPR as a justice reporter, but I was not, you know, a host of All Things Considered, this was actually 2008 or 2009. I started singing with the band like 13 years ago. And I guess Thomas just knew a good investment when he saw one.
Luke Burbank: When like, did you you had your first gig with them at the Hollywood Bowl?
Ari Shapiro: Yeah, the first time I ever sang live on stage with a band anywhere was in front of 18,000 people at the Hollywood Bowl with a band that I had idolized since I was in high school. So no pressure. (Yeah.)
Luke Burbank: How do you, like, control your nerves at that point?
Ari Shapiro: Like when somebody once said the key is to get all of the butterflies flapping in the same direction, which I actually think is a really good way of thinking about it. Like you don't want the nerves to go away. You just want to be able to channel them in a useful, you know, path like funnel the water towards the desired outcome. So it doesn't just flood the farmers. I'm, I'm.I'm grasping for the metaphor. I don't know. I'm. Yeah.
Luke Burbank: You had a pretty outdoorsy experience really as a kid around here.
Ari Shapiro: The thing that my parents taught me was the more you know about the world, the more interesting life becomes. And so my mother learned about wildflowers, and I got into birdwatching, and my dad would take us mushroom hunting and like, that is a principle that now I apply to my work at All Things Considered, because I wake up every day knowing that by the time I go to sleep, I will have learned about something that I didn't know yesterday. And it's an extension of that principle that my parents taught me as applied to nature, that now I apply to business, politics, art, science and everything else that we do on ATC.
Luke Burbank: I think you're sort of as a radio professional jumping to my next question, answering it without me even need to ask it, which is what is your guiding principle when you go into an interview? What are you hoping to to accomplish?
Ari Shapiro: It just depends so much on the kind of interview I'm doing. You know, if I'm interviewing the head of the Texas legislature about the abortion bill, it's going to be a very different kind of thing from if I'm interviewing Meryl Streep about the movie that she's talked about a thousand times already that day. And so the thing that I love about All Things Considered is that I get to do both of those kinds of things and many other sorts of things besides that. I mean, fundamentally, I want a real conversation. I want a moment of connection, I want a moment of insight. I want to get someone off their talking points. But beyond that, each one is pretty unique, which is sort of a wonderful thing about the job is that it's never the same twice.
Elena Passarello: Do you think about the listeners when you're having these these one on one conversations with people and you're trying to connect to them? Are the millions of people that are eventually going to be hearing it a part of the exchange?
Ari Shapiro: Yeah. There are two ways that I think about the listeners. One is that I want them to be I want to be a surrogate for them. Like if I'm witnessing something extraordinary, I want the listener to feel like they are in my shoes. And so in that sense, I kind of want to get out of the way, Like I don't want to be the center of attention. I want them to imagine that they could be there. And the other way in which I often think about listeners is that I get an opportunity to ask powerful people tough questions that most of our listeners won't have. So to give you an example, I was at the U.N. Climate Summit in 2021 in Glasgow, Scotland, and I spent most of the week talking to young climate activists from all over the world. And towards the end of the week, I got a sit down interview with John Kerry, who was President Biden's climate envoy. And in that interview, I played clips for him from some of the young climate activists who I had spoken to from Uganda, from Samoa, from other countries. And I thought, you know, these people, for the most part, are never going to have a chance to ask John Kerry these tough questions, to challenge him to put these questions to him. And because I do have the opportunity I have to do right by them and by the millions of All Things Considered listeners who are going to be listening to this saying, but why don't you ask him this thing that they care deeply about that they may never have a chance to ask him about?
Luke Burbank: You've been in war zones, you've been in you've been in places that are pretty unsafe. You've also sang in front of thousands of people. Is there some way that you relate those to things like we were talking earlier about? You said, try to have the butterflies all flap in the same direction. Like when you're about to go on stage, you're feeling nervous. You think, Well, it's not Iraq. Or when you're in Iraq, you're like, Well, it's not the Hollywood Bowl. Well, you know.
Ari Shapiro: Well, you know, I think in every instance, if you're doing the best you can do in that moment, it's because you're listening and responding, whether you're like you have your antenna out for danger or whether it's am I losing the audience? How do I get them back? Or if it's wait, that person said something that doesn't sound right. I need to challenge and follow up on it. I'm trying to keep my senses of perception wide open to what is actually happening. And so for me as a journalist, whether I'm in a war zone or for me as a performer at the Hollywood Bowl, what I need to do is sort of stay permeable, stay sensitive, stay aware and react in the moment to what is actually happening, as opposed to what I expect will happen or what my preconceived notions were of what would have happened.
Luke Burbank: Yeah, I think you you write in the book that you often tell journalism students if you end up getting the story that you were expecting, that you were going to get before you went out, you're doing something wrong.
Ari Shapiro: Right. Exactly. Yeah. Because you go out to find out what's actually happening. And of course, you do your preparation and your homework in advance. So you have some idea, some information. But if you could do it all remotely, then what's the point of actually going there?
Luke Burbank: Right. Why did you want to write a book? Like what did you want to say in this that you can't say to millions of people over the radio every day?
Ari Shapiro: It's something that friends have asked me often over the years, which is how do you stay optimistic in the face of all the terrible things that are happening in the world? Friends often say, like you as a journalist, talk to people on the worst day of their lives, whether it's a war, a mass shooting, a revolution, a natural disaster. And yet I am optimistic. And I do believe in humanity's basic goodness and friends find that puzzling. And the answer that I have given my friends over the years is a version of what is now this book, which is I mean, the title sort of says that the best strangers in the world, these people who give me hope, who as I've gone through my life as a journalist and also as a performer, meeting them has suddenly changed who I am. And this is my way of in a way, kind of like it's an almost like a memoir told through the stories of others, sharing the stories of those who have altered my path, who have stuck with me as I go through life and go through the world and go through my career as a journalist and and my effort to share that with others.
Luke Burbank: Well, it is a great book. It's the Best Strangers in the World, written by Ari SHAPIRO right here on Live Wire Radio from PRX. Ari, now, here's the thing.
Ari Shapiro: You have to play a game, don't I?
Luke Burbank: You're, of course, one of the hosts of All Things Considered. We were wondering, though, if there were some things that maybe you wouldn't do. We want to run an exercise. We're calling Some Things Considered?
Ari Shapiro: Oh! All right, I'm ready.
Luke Burbank: All right. Ari Shapiro, would you consider participating in Portland's naked bike ride?
Ari Shapiro: Oh, totally. Yeah. Absolutely.
Luke Burbank: Would you consider reading an underwriting message from Tushy Bidet Company?
Ari Shapiro: Oh, sure. Please. Come on, Luke. Yeah, no problem. As a gay man, I think we need to normalize butt stuff.
Luke Burbank: Ari, would you consider competing on the masked singer?
Ari Shapiro: No. No. If I'm going to sing, I want credit. I want my face to show. That's a good point. Now, would I be a judge or a host? Absolutely.
Luke Burbank: Would you consider buying NPR Music a bigger desk? The current one is...
Ari Shapiro: I consider Bob Boilen a good friend, and I think if I offered to buy him a larger desk, he would he would think of it as such a slap in the face. He might never speak to me again. So, no.
Luke Burbank: There's a great story from about how that NPR Tiny Desk thing came around when you and I work there together. Ari. Bob was the director of All Things Considered. Meaning the person who picks the songs that are going to, you know, happen before and after interviews and stuff. And remember, his office was just stacks of CDs. Yeah. It just was like and that's really what he cared about was the music. And. And then he had this little program.
Ari Shapiro: And they got more letters asking what the music between segments was than anything else.
Luke Burbank: Which was hurtful for Robert Siegel, I believe.
Ari Shapiro: Surely. And in the early days of the Internet. Bob Boilen created All Songs Considered, which started out as just almost like a mix tape every week of some of the stuff that he was playing between segments. And then it evolved from there.
Luke Burbank: And they would have bands that were going to do other things, just stand in front of his actual desk and play a song. Yeah. And thus the Tiny Desk was born. Ari Shapiro, would you consider introducing Nina Totenberg as Totes McGotes sometime just because it would be funny?
Ari Shapiro: Depends on the audience. On All Things Considered, No. But if Nina were making an appearance on Live Wire, I would 100% say, please welcome Totes McGotes.
Luke Burbank: That's how you play Some Things Considered with Ari Shapiro, everyone.
Ari Shapiro: Thank you so much!
Luke Burbank: And that was Ari Shapiro right here on Live Wire. Ari's new book, The Best Strangers in the World Stories from a Life Spent Listening is available now. And of course, you can always hear him on All Things Considered. Live Wire is brought to you in part by Alaska Airlines. Alaska Airlines offers the most nonstop from the West Coast, including destinations like Hawaii, Palm Springs and San Francisco and as a member of the OneWorld alliance, Alaska Airlines can connect you to more than 1000 destinations worldwide with their global partners. Learn more at Alaska Air dot com. This is Live Wire, as we like to do each week. We've asked our listeners a question based on Ari's book about all these people that he's interviewed over the years. We wanted to know about the best stranger that our listeners had ever met. Elena has been collecting up those responses. What are you seeing?
Elena Passarello: Here's one from Sarah. Sarah says, A friend bailed on me for a concert, and so I resold her ticket online and I ended up sitting next to the person who bought it. And we got to chatting and we had so much in common that we decided to stay in touch. Four years later, she's become one of my best friends. Love you, Emily.
Luke Burbank: That's great. I mean, that's a real life lesson to just be open to the universe and new people and new experiences. I feel like the older I get, the more a kind of shut down I get around having to interact, you know, maybe with somebody sitting next to me at a concert who I don't already know. Yeah, but that's an example of how great that can be.
Elena Passarello: Yeah. You already have one thing in common because you're both there to see the same artist.
Luke Burbank: Who's another great stranger that one of our listeners met.
Elena Passarello: Okay, I love this one from David. David says It was around midnight. I had a flat on the freeway. A spare, but no Jack. All of a sudden, a young man pulled over in a pickup truck and he not only had a jack, but he insisted on changing the tire. I offered to pay him, but he refused, and I asked him where he was going. He said he just cruises around to see if people need help. That was sounds mythic.
Luke Burbank: Well, I was going to say, you know, I grew up in the church and there was versions of that story always going around. Gospel outreach Christian fellowship that it would be like. And then I went down to the house where the person lived. They told us they've been dead for years. There's a lot of like kind of angelic miracle like stories that I grew up with. But sounds like this may have been a real flesh and blood human being who helped that listener out. Okay, one more quick one before we get out of here.
Elena Passarello: Oh, I love this one from Ted. Ted was visiting his son, who is in a college town working part time at a restaurant. And they were walking to dinner. And according to Ted, his son said, Let's cut through here, through the alley, which made Ted nervous. And then Ted saw a figure near the other end who is getting up and walking toward Ted and his son. And Ted says he had clearly spent more time outside than inside. But then, Ted, some said, hey, Rob, how you doing? And then the guy smiled and said, Yeah, man, I'm good. How are you doing? Is this your dad? Then Ted's son introduced the two men, and Ted says, The man grabbed my hand and both of his slap me on the shoulder and said, Great job, man. And then as they were walking away, Ted son said, That's Rob. We feed him at the restaurant sometimes. Ted says, My favorite stranger in that story was my son. So much of what I'd hoped for him came true, and I didn't even know it.
Luke Burbank: Oh, wow.
Elena Passarello: I know.
Luke Burbank: Well, that's a beautiful story. Thank you to everyone who sent in your responses. We've got a listener question for next week's show that we will bring your way in just a few moments. First, though, let's introduce our next guest. In fact, you know what? Maybe we'll just use his Instagram bio to introduce Demi Adejuyigbe. Here's what it says. Demi Adejuyigbe is a director, comedian, writer, and then it just says Insert silly for thing. As a joke. He's written on the TV show The Good Place, as well as for the Marvel Universe. Lately, he's been working on the Apple Plus animated series Strange Planet. And, of course, he also made those incredibly elaborate 21st of September videos that got millions of views. Now, we recorded this conversation with Demi during the current writers strike, which pits the Writers Guild of America against the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers. We're gonna hear more about that during this conversation with Demi, recorded at the Alberta Rose Theater right here in Portland. Take a listen.
Demi Adejuyigbe: Hello.
Luke Burbank: Hi. Welcome back to the show.
Demi Adejuyigbe: Oh, it's so nice to be here.
Luke Burbank: So we were talking in the green room, and you said you decided do the most Portland thing ever, which was bike to the show.
Demi Adejuyigbe: And I'm glad that you mention that, because as soon as I walked out here, I was like, they're going to see how sweaty I am and we'll have to address it. So, yes, I did bike here. Thank God you guys can see and everyone at home is just got to imagine it's not that bad if you're listening.
Luke Burbank: But you live in L.A. most of the time. What is more time consuming? Being a writer's in Hollywood or being a striking writer and going to the picket line?
Demi Adejuyigbe: I, I would say the only way that being a striking writer is more consuming is that having the free time means you just get crazy and you start doing things. It's like you're solving problems you don't have to solve. Really? Where it's like, I'm just like, I don't like these doors. I'm going to install new doors. Like, don't you write? You do not do home improvement. Don't do that. But I do miss being in a room and feeling like the time that you're spending is constructive and communal. And I feel like going out on the straight lines is so nice because it does just feel like you're seeing all these people and just being like, Oh, it feels like going to camp for a little bit. But it also has the vibes of like the beginning of the pandemic where you're like, We can do this forever, And then you're like, Well, right.
Luke Burbank: Let's not test that. Yeah, I was wondering if that isn't like a very small silver lining to this for four WGA members, which is, you know, you're all physically together out on these picket lines and you're meeting people from other shows and other projects that you would have never otherwise. Is there a solidarity in that?
Demi Adejuyigbe: Absolutely. And I think it's very fitting because I think a lot of what the WGA is fighting for right now is the idea to preserve writing as a communal medium and not a thing that's just sort of sourced out to like a small room of people who are meeting on Zoom for a couple of weeks that then one person is going to write all of and I feel like a lot of people don't get involved in the production of their own work anymore. And it's very rare. I was on a show just before the strike where I was one of two writers that got to be on set for the show despite having eight writers that were in the room. And it's like a lot of those people don't get experience of being on production and producing their own episodes, and it's like a lot of people don't get to meet other writers because of that or don't get involved in the process. And so getting to be out on the strike lines and being like, Here's this big group of people who all want to do the same thing, sharing their experiences, sharing their like the things that they're horror stories and whatnot. It feels very like enriching and communal. And it's it's the same feeling is going to a writer's room and feeling like you're messing around and being like, this is part of the process of creating, which I think dies down a lot now with the stuff that we are trying to stop with the strike, but...
Luke Burbank: I mean, would it be accurate to say that the way the industry is trying to move and with the streaming and all that is that being a professional writer of like television will not really be a job anymore or not a job someone can make their living at?
Demi Adejuyigbe: That's definitely the case if the AMPTP gets their way. It's hard because I think there are a lot of people who will make a living in this and do make a living in this. And it's like people sort of go like what? The writers get paid a lot of money, and it's hard to sort of argue that they don't because a lot of us do. But I think it's that same thing of like you're hearing from the top 10% of writers and seeing them as the shining example of what everyone is. But the truth is, is like there's such a low barrier to entry there. There are assistants and script supervisors and like low level staff writers who do not get paid that much and are required to do more work than is supposed to be required at their level. And it's like you're at a certain point where like, you don't want to say no to work. That is supposed to be good for your career, but also doesn't result in you getting the advantages that you used to be able to get at that level. I do feel like when the bottom starts dying out, like a lot of people are just like, Well, but Chuck Lorre makes 5 million a year. It's like, Yeah, Chuck Lorre will be fine. We're not fighting for Chuck Lorre.
Luke Burbank: But that's the guy that made the Big Bang Theory this year.
Demi Adejuyigbe: I said that, like we all know Chuck Lorre. I don't know where I am. Yeah, yeah.
Elena Passarello: But a lot of the people too, who are in these beginning like the script supervisor positions or maybe it's their first year on the team, are part of this movement have a lot better representation in TV and have all these different voices. So they're the ones that you want in TV more than anything, right? Absolutely. But they're the ones who maybe aren't going to be able to make a living because they they haven't made it to the upper echelon before. These these things have started changing.
Demi Adejuyigbe: And I keep saying that I feel like people are like, what are you fighting for? And it's like, I'm not fighting for myself. I'm fighting for the idea of like the next generation of writers, the people who like, are being forced into smaller rooms and not getting paid as much because they're being told like, Oh, just write the stuff first and then we'll greenlight it and then maybe you'll get a chance.
Luke Burbank: Or and I want to just clarify again, when you say smaller rooms as a writer's rooms, Yeah, not just like a small room that.
Elena Passarello: Apartments are getting smaller.
Demi Adejuyigbe: Right, Right. They're putting us all in just like what, boxes. No, but like, in, in rooms where it's like there are less writers on a project, They're like, Hey, you have ten weeks. And for people to write ten scripts of a season of television, which is like, you're not going to get good TV that way. They're being like, We support diversity. We're going to bring in diverse writers, but then giving them low orders are being like, okay, we can only afford to pay half of you the rate that you wanted. So here's the cap. If you can't take it, it's fine. We'll pay someone else. It's just like as diversity gets bigger in the industry, it's no coincidence that, like, tech giants have come in and started being like, okay, well, how do we make this a lot cheaper and how do we, you know, get the credit of doing the things that people seem to say that they want us to do, but also not have to put in the work or the finance to, like actually support these things or see them through because they're like risk averse.
Luke Burbank: You're listening to Live Wire Radio. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. We are talking to comedian, creator and writer and current member of the WGA, which is on strike. Demi Adejuyigbe. We've got to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. When we come back, we're going to hear a special love song from Demi, which is not not affected by the fact that he's going through a breakup. Not- not at all. So don't go anywhere. More Live Wire coming up. Welcome back to Live Wire from PRX. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. All right, before we hear a little music from Demi Adejuyigbe, let's give you a preview of next week's show. We are going to be talking to writer and reporter Casey Parks about her new book, Diary of a Misfit. In it, she chronicles what it was like for her to come out to her family in Louisiana. Also, her journey to try to learn more about the life of a trans man named Roy Hudgens, who'd once been her grandmas best friend. It's sort of part memoir. It's part a journalistic saga. We're also going to get some music from the very talented singer, songwriter and multi-instrumentalist Thunderstorm Artis. He broke into the spotlight as a finalist on season 18 of The Voice. And we're going to be looking to get your answers to our listener question. Elena, what are we asking folks for next week's show?
Elena Passarello: We want you to tell us about a mystery that you are still trying to solve.
Luke Burbank: Okay. True crime, very popular these days. I'm hoping this mystery may be more in the banal department.
Elena Passarello: Or in the missing sock department.
Luke Burbank: Banal but interesting, that's the goal here on Live Wire. That's really our marching orders. So if you got an answer to that question, go ahead and hit us up on Twitter or Facebook. We're at Live Wire radio. Speaking of Live Wire radio, that's what you're listening to right now. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. Also, we're talking to Demi Adejuyigbe. Now, before that break, we were talking about the writers strike and we also wanted to find out what Demi has been up to since he's not spending all his time writing television. We're going to hear about that. Plus, Demi will present us with a very special love song written for his ex-girlfriend. Take a listen to this. Now amidst the the strike and all the other things you have going on, I noticed on Instagram you have made time....
Demi Adejuyigbe: Which by the way, I want to clarify, is nothing because of the strike. I'm not doing anything.
Luke Burbank: But you're going to a renaissance fair. Yes, that's what I saw on Instagram.
Demi Adejuyigbe: Yeah, that's the level of work we're at.
Luke Burbank: Where, why, how?
Demi Adejuyigbe: I don't know when this happened, but I feel like there's been this shift in so much stuff that as a kid was like shorthand for nerd stuff that now is like, well, all the cool kids are going to the Renaissance fair, okay? And I'm just like, I feel like it was this year, like I just saw on Instagram, like everyone's at the Renaissance Fair.
Luke Burbank: Where was the Renaissance fair in LA?
Demi Adejuyigbe: It's like 40 minutes outside of L.A. It's also it's called the Renaissance Pleasure Fair, which I never fully under No one clarified why I don't like it as a name. I didn't.
Luke Burbank: That sounds like they're trying to sell more tickets.
Demi Adejuyigbe: Yes. And I guess it works because everyone was at the pleasure fair. But yeah, it was it was really fun. It felt like going to ye olde Disneyland. I was truly just like I said, I went there with the goal of like, I'm going to get a turkey leg. And then we got there. I was just like, Well, you can also get mead. And I was like, Oh, right. There's all sorts of medieval foods and like all sorts of medieval games and all these things and it's just a blast.
Luke Burbank: Did you joust or anything?
Demi Adejuyigbe: No, they won't. They don't let me hold the big sword.
Luke Burbank: Did you have to dress up at all with this? Was this cosplay type of event?
Demi Adejuyigbe: You don't have to, but I certainly did. Yeah, I it's so unfortunately, with an event like this, when I hear that I'm going with friends who were all like, We're going to dress up, I start thinking, Great, here's the guideline of what we're supposed to do. What is the weirdest thing I could do within that guideline? And I thought, okay, well, I could go. As Martin Lawrence is character from Black Knight, which is just a jersey and everyone would be be like, That's not rennaisance and I'd be like, Oh, but it is. I could dress like someone going to Beyonce's Renaissance show. Sure. And I eventually just settle on getting a giant cloak that I could sweat underneath and pretend to be a friar. I was going to shave my head, but I was like, I spent so long growing out this hair, I'm not going to do it. Good.
Luke Burbank: That was the right decision.
Demi Adejuyigbe: Thank you.
Luke Burbank: Demi, you are such a talented performer. Along with being a writer. The last time you were here on the show, you sang the Christmas song that none of us knew we needed, but we sure did. I believe it was called Rock and Roll Santa. That's correct. And I understand that you've prepared another song from the heart.
Demi Adejuyigbe: Yes.
Luke Burbank: For us.
Demi Adejuyigbe: Really? Just really, you know, from the chambers of my heart here.
Luke Burbank: What's the what's the song about?
Demi Adejuyigbe: So a little bit of a set up for this. I recently went through a breakup song. Oh, it's fine. But in the process of in the process of the relationship, I was like, I wanted to write a song for them to express how I felt about them. And I never got a chance to perform it for them. So I figured I don't want it to go to waste. I love to perform it tonight.
Luke Burbank: Do you want to hear that from Demi Adejuyigbe. All right. I really wanted you to be playing a lute from the Renaissance fair.
Demi Adejuyigbe: I reckon if I. If I'd known that was the case, I'd be like, okay, I'll show up with a whole medieval merry band of misfits.
Luke Burbank: Does this does this song have a title?
Demi Adejuyigbe: No, but I guess you could call it lucky. Maybe. Okay. I didn't really get as far as title, just like the song is written.
Luke Burbank: When you're dealing with a lot of heartbreak.
Demi Adejuyigbe: So I'm dealing with so much right now.
Luke Burbank: This is Demi Adejuyigbe here on Live Wire.
Demi Adejuyigbe: [Sings Song]
Luke Burbank: Demi Adejuyigbe right here on Live Wire!
Luke Burbank: That was the multi-talented Demi Adejuyigbe here on Live Wire. Of course, he and other WGA members are currently on strike. We are very much hoping there's a fair resolution to all of that just around the corner so we can get back to watching that scripted television that we all love so much. All right. That's going to do it for this week's episode of Live Wire. A huge thanks to our guests, Ari Shapiro and Demi Adejuyigbe.Live Wire's brought to you in part by Alaska Airlines.
Elena Passarello: Laura Hadden is our executive producer. Heather de Michele is our executive director and our producer and editor is Melanie Sevcenko. Molly Pettit is our technical director. And our House Sound is by Daniel Blake. Tre Hester is our assistant editor. Our marketing and production manager is Karen Pan. Rosa Garcia is our operations associate. Jackie Ibarra is our production fellow and Ant Diaz is our intern. Our house band is Ethan Fox. Tucker, Sam Tucker, Ayal Alves, and A Walker Spring, who also composes our music. This episode was mixed by Molly Pettit and Tre Hester.
Luke Burbank: Additional funding provided by the Marie Lamfrom Charitable Foundation. Live Wire, was created by Robin Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff. This week we'd like to thank member Mary Felice Crowe of Portland, Oregon. For more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast head on over the Live Wire Radio dot org. I'm Luke Burbank, for Elena Passarello and the whole Live Wire crew, thank you for listening. And we will see you next week.
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