Episode 568
with Ginny Hogan, Anis Mojgani, and Pink Martini's Jimmie Herrod
Comedian and satirist Ginny Hogan explains the terms and conditions of being her undetermined partner; Oregon Poet Laureate Anis Mojgani describes a surprising encounter with an unlikely poetry fan; and jazz vocalist and Pink Martini member Jimmie Herrod recounts his successful run on America's Got Talent before performing his new song, "I Love You." Plus, host Luke Burbank and Elena Passarello unpack some dating red flags.
Ginny Hogan
Stand-up Comedian & Author
Ginny Hogan is an LA-based writer and stand-up comic. Her new humor collection, I'm More Dateable than a Plate of Refried Beans, is a laugh-out-loud exploration of the ups and downs of modern romance. Named a “rising star of satire” by Forbes, she’s performed at comedy festivals across the country as well as for Comedy Central. Her writing has appeared in the New Yorker, Atlantic, New York Times, McSweeney's, and Vulture.
Anis Mojgani
Current Poet Laureate of Oregon
Anis Mojgani is the current Poet Laureate of Oregon, but his love for poetry (and sharing it) has brought him to places near and far. A two-time individual champion of the National Poetry Slam and winner of the International World Cup Poetry Slam, Anis has done commissions for the Getty Museum, the Peabody Essex Museum, the Oregon Parks Department, and the Portland Timbers. His work has appeared on HBO, National Public Radio, in the pages of the New York Times, and such journals as Rattle, Platypus, Winter Tangerine, Forklift Ohio, and Bat City Review. The author of five books of poetry and the libretto for the opera Sanctuaries, his first children’s book is forthcoming from Chronicle Books. Originally from New Orleans, Anis currently lives in Portland Oregon.
Jimmie Herrod
Musician and guest vocalist for Pink Martini
Jimmie Herrod is a Pacific Northwest-based artist and performer who currently resides in Portland, Oregon. He holds a Bachelors of Music degree in music composition and performance from Cornish, and a Masters of Music in Jazz Studies from Portland State University, where he has subsequently taught jazz voice. Jimmie has also worked in Seattle’s lauded musical theater scene at ArtsWest and the 5th Avenue Theater. Recent performance highlights include being a featured soloist with the Oregon Symphony’s showcase in the 2018 TedX series, working with international acts such as ODESZA, and being a Golden Buzzer recipient for the 2021 season of America’s Got Talent. Jimmie is also a regular guest vocalist with Pink Martini, touring throughout the US, Canada, and Europe. In 2018 Jimmie recorded “Exodus”, his first single with Pink Martini, as well the solo album of original works, Falling in Love and Learning to Love Myself.
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Luke Burbank: Hey Elena.
Elena Passarello: Hey, Luke. How's it going?
Luke Burbank: It's going well. Are you ready to play the game everyone's tuning in for: station location identification examination.
Elena Passarello: Yes. I can't wait.
Luke Burbank: This, of course, is where I quiz Elena about a place in the country where we're on the radio. She's got to figure out where I am talking about. This city has been called the flagship city and also the Gem city because there is a lake that this city is associated with that looks like a gem when the sun is shining on it.
Elena Passarello: I mean, what lake doesn't look like a gem when the sun is shining on it?
Luke Burbank: Let me try this. It is home to the indoor water park known as Splash Lagoon, which is the largest indoor water park on the East Coast. And while this city is is very associated with a lake of the same name, this is not as big as the lake. This is an indoor water park that's very large, but not as voluminous as the lake that we think of associated with this town.
Elena Passarello: Erie, Pennsylvania.
Luke Burbank: Erie, Pennsylvania is exactly the place we are talking about, where we are on the radio, on W Q L N. Did you know, by the way, that Erie also the region anyway grows grapes and produces the third largest amount of wine in the United States?
Elena Passarello: No, I'm glad you didn't give that to me for a hint because I never I know.
Luke Burbank: Move over Sonoma. Wow we're talking Erie PA baby. All right. So we get to the show.
Elena Passarello: Let's do it.
Luke Burbank: All right. Take it away.
Elena Passarello: From PRX it's LIVE WIRE. This week, comedian and writer Ginny Hogan.
Ginny Hogan: I am not legally permitted to get mad at you for speaking with ex-lovers as this relationship is undefined. But I am permitted to be vaguely passive aggressive for several days. Should they like one of your Instagrams.
Elena Passarello: And poet and Anis Mojgani
Anis Mojgani: I love a holy sunset, which feels as if the sky is praying to me. To us.
Elena Passarello: With music from Jimi Harrod and our fabulous house band. I'm your announcer, Elena Passarello. And now the host of Live Wire Luke Burbank.
Luke Burbank: Thank you so much, Elena. Thanks to everyone for tuning in to Live Wire this week, including the folks out there in Erie, Pennsylvania. We've got a great show in store for you. This week we have asked the Live Wire listeners a question, which was what is your biggest dating red flag we'll be talking, dating with the very funny Ginny Hogan coming up. And we're going to reveal the audience response to that question in just a bit. First, though, of course, we got to kick things off with the best news we heard all week this.
Luke Burbank: This is our reminder right here at the top of the show that there is some good news happening out there in the world. Elena, what is the best news that you heard this week?
Elena Passarello: Okay. Definitely the best news for me. Maybe not the best news for the whole world. But, you know, I'm a little bit of a quarter hound. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm a numismatist.
Luke Burbank: Okay.
Elena Passarello: When I was growing up, I loved when they came out with all those quarters. And I know I brought this up before I brought it up when it was announced. But the best news for me is that it's here. The first Asian American to appear on U.S. currency is happening on the back of one of those new quarter series's. And it's Anna May Wong.
Luke Burbank: Oh, right.
Elena Passarello: Yeah, she's amazing. She's one of the first movie stars, period. Born in Los Angeles, starred in her first movie when she was 17 years old, 100 years ago this year. So it's a special time for her to be remembered. She was among five women that were selected to be on the back of this first series of quarters, the Mint. The U.S. Mint selected Maya Angelou and Sally Ride, and the public selected Wilma mankiller, Nina Otero, Warren and Anna May Wong, who fought casting stereotypes. She at advocated for greater representation of Asian-American performers throughout her four decade long career. She was a major fashion icon, and you can really see that on the quarter.
Luke Burbank: I was going to say she looks so stylish. I saw a photo of what this court is going to look like.
Elena Passarello: I feel like people are going to take the quarter to their stylist and their hair stylist and be like, can you give me this cut? Which will never has happened in a quarter or any kind of coin before. People are being like, Give me that. Alexander Hamilton.
Luke Burbank: Nobody walked in with a picture of Ben Franklin saying, No, make this happen.
Elena Passarello: Although I have had that haircut before anyway, I'm just really glad to hear that. I'm also glad that they announced their next series of quarters which are going to come out next year, and they include pilot Bessie Coleman, ballerina Maria Tallchief and the first lady herself, vis Eleanor Roosevelt. So anyway, I haven't really been using coins that much, you know, like everybody else have kind of been just like using my card and my phone for everything, but I think I might just get like rolls and rolls of quarters and only pay in quarters now, because all of my quarters are going to be like amazing women. American women, which I can't wait for.
Luke Burbank: It really would feel like an artifact to me, like something that was valuable beyond the $0.25 that it's worth or whatever.
Elena Passarello: Yeah. And, you know, they find speaking of artifacts, people will find coins in Europe in the dirt that are like from the time of Julius Caesar. And they have heads on them. Right. Usually Caesar's head. And that could happen now with Anna mae Wong's quarters. It could be found thousands of years later. And people would know that she was representative of our times.
Luke Burbank: And very, very stylish on that corner. Tell you what.
Elena Passarello: Yeah, yeah.
Luke Burbank: The best news that I saw this week or at least learned about this week, Ali. And it comes from Colorado, from the Silverton, Colorado area. Imagine that you are riding on a train in like the wilderness of Colorado, specifically the Durango in Silverton, narrow gauge diesel engine number four, six one. And you're just kind of staring out the window at like these cliffs and this river, the Animus River is the one that is part of this story. And you just look out across this river and there is just a person on the other side of the river frantically waving at you, just like, Please help me. That is exactly what happened recently to a woman who was on the train, looking out the window, who saw across the river an injured hiker, a woman from New Mexico in her twenties. She's not named in the piece, but we have some details. Who had gone on a day hike in this area, was trying to take a picture. Be careful out there, folks, with the photographs and the nature. She tumbled down this cliff, lost consciousness, broke her leg and was out there for like two days trying to flag down trains that were going by on this rail line.
Elena Passarello: So she did it more than once.
Luke Burbank: Yeah. Also, the hero in the story is not named the woman who was looking out the window of the train and actually noticed this. But finally, this hiker got someone's attention and then this woman immediately called back to the conductor who stopped the train, got out, checked on the woman from across the river. By the way, the river is like freezing cold and rushing very quickly, so it was kind of dangerous to cross it. Fortunately, there was another train pretty close behind this one and that had a married couple on board who were the engineer and the fireman. Nick and Kayla Breeden were driving the train that was behind. And so that train stopped. It had like 327 people on it. They were like, Everybody, just hang tight. We've got to deal with this. They went down, they crossed the river, this freezing cold, rushing river to administer first aid to this hiker and give her some food and some blankets and to just. Like make sure she was okay. Amazingly, she was doing all right, considering what she'd been through. So they call a LifeFlight helicopter. Problem is, the helicopter cannot land over on the banks of the river where the injured hiker is. And so they have to land the helicopter on the other side. And so they have to do this very involved sort of rope based rescue system where they basically, like, get these ropes set up in this backboard and they get this hiker across the river. Meanwhile, Kayla has just been there the whole time with her just administering aid. The train is now gone and she's just they're taking care of her. They get her across the river. They get her on the helicopter and they get her to the hospital where she's actually doing remarkably well.
Elena Passarello: Oh, my goodness. Do you trades in a helicopter?
Luke Burbank: I mean, I guess the maybe the takeaway is it's good to stare out of the window of a train and daydream a little bit because you might see somebody who needs help. They also mentioned in the story that the woman who spotted the injured hiker and her husband were given free train tickets for the ride. No, it was totally comped.
Elena Passarello: But they earned their fare.
Luke Burbank: They earned their freight on that one. So I guess all's well that ends well out there in Silverton, Colorado. So that's the best news that I heard this week.
Luke Burbank: All right. Let's say hi to our first guest. She is a writer and standup comic whose work has appeared in The New Yorker, The Atlantic and The New York Times. Her book, I'm More Dateable than a Plate of Refried Beans, hilariously details the ups and downs of modern romance through such pieces as was the breakup mutual, a true crime investigation? Take a listen to this. It's our conversation with Ginny Hogan, recorded in front of a live audience last month.
Ginny Hogan: Hello. Hey, thanks for having me.
Luke Burbank: Hi. Thank you for being on the show. Are you worried that the title of this book, I'm more dateable than a plate of refried beans could come off as too cocky.
Ginny Hogan: I mean, I've tweeted the title and had people respond. No, you know, I've gotten I've gotten pushback on it. So I think in many ways, it keeps me humble because I put it out there and people who disagree have told me.
Luke Burbank: I read that you started out not in comedy, but as a data scientist.
Ginny Hogan: Yes, I worked at a mayonnaise company. Data scientist? Yeah.
Luke Burbank: What was the man is related data that you were silencing.
Ginny Hogan: So really great question. I wish I could tell you. Yes, I looked at a lot of sales data on where different flavors of mayonnaise sold best, but we didn't sell a lot of mayonnaise, so it was a pretty. I could eyeball it. Yeah.
Luke Burbank: But so you you started a blog while you had that job. You started a blog where you were kind of using data analysis on, like, your dating profile and other people's profiles.
Ginny Hogan: Yeah. And mostly mine. And I guess the men who were unlucky enough to match with me. So I, I worked at Facebook for a little while and I was given ad credit to run ads. And I thought that was so dumb because who wants to run Facebook ads? But I started making, like, dating ads for myself and running them as a joke.
Luke Burbank: So when you say you got ad credit because you worked at Facebook, you were allowed to also make Facebook ads for yourself.
Ginny Hogan: Yes. For free.
Elena Passarello: You could advertise whatever you wanted.
Ginny Hogan: I could advertise. And I you know, other people I worked with had really smart ideas, like they sold their ad credit to places that wanted them. But I didn't think of that. So I ran ads where I it was like a picture of me and then like a funny saying, it was one of those things where I was hoping it would work and when it didn't work, I pretended it had been a bit the whole time I was, I was thinking maybe I would meet someone. I had my I put my actual number on it and no one text said, Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then basically I got some like statistics on which ads perform better. And then I wrote this blog post that was kind of satirical but kind of a data analysis post. And then I kept doing that with other apps, and the data analysis got sloppier and sloppier, and I got complaints from people being like, Your statistics are really bad. And then I just gave up and made it just a funny blog.
Luke Burbank: Those are people who really get it.
Ginny Hogan: They do? Really? Yeah. Yeah.
Luke Burbank: You're like, very funny satirical thing that's using a small amount of data, but they were like, But actually.
Ginny Hogan: Yeah, that's actually exactly what it was like.
Luke Burbank: One of the things you write about in the book is trying to kind of unpack dates of yours, calling you quirky or thinking of you as quirky. Is that something that you've gotten a lot over the course of your dating life?
Ginny Hogan: I feel like the more excited I am on dates, the more likely someone will call me quirky. But I think more recently I. I haven't had the energy to fake it. So now they say nothing. I think they want.
Luke Burbank: Yeah. One of the things that you talk about a lot in your comedy, too, is your sobriety. I'm curious, when did you get sober?
Ginny Hogan: Almost four years ago.
Luke Burbank: And, yeah, you guys, you. I mean, if you are comfortable talking about it, what got you to that decision?
Ginny Hogan: Since I was doing so much standup, I was out every night and just kind of drinking more and more. And a lot of the time in standup you get paid in free drinks and it kind of just sort of slowly unraveled. And then I moved to Los Angeles and took a break from stand up for like a month. And that was kind of what what compelled me to do it. But it was it was pretty hard to start doing standup again without drinking, I guess. But I will say it's kind of it's kind of necessary because standup is like an endorphin rush. So it kind of felt like at some point I was like, I don't know how anyone stays sober without doing standup. And it's sort of like it's for better and for worse, like in the way that you can, like, have fun drunk nights and also disasters like you still get that with standup. And so yeah, it is kind of in many ways a perfect subject, but it took me a while to get back into stand off after that because in many ways standup is like the reason I had been drinking so much and I hadn't. I don't think I'd ever perform standup sober until until I quit drinking altogether.
Luke Burbank: This is Live Wire from PRX. We're listening to an interview with Ginny Hogan about her latest book, I'm More Dateable Than A Plate of Refried Beans. We got to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. Much more with Ginny in a moment.
Luke Burbank: Welcome back to Live Wire. I'm your host, Luke Burbank, here with Elena Passarello. We're listening to an interview we recorded with Ginny Hogan about her book, I'm More Dateable Than a Plate of Refried Beans recorded in front of a live audience in Portland, Oregon, last month. Take a listen.
Luke Burbank: This book is so funny and it has there's so many different kind of formats that you use to kind of talk about dating life these days. And one of the things that seems to come through in this book is that the challenge of dating in the modern moment is the undefined nature of a lot of relationships and trying to figure out what that exactly is. And you have this really funny chapter terms and conditions for being my undefined partner. And I just wondering, it's just it's sort of listed out like any contract you might sign for any cell phone plan or whatever. I was running. Could you read some of this?
Ginny Hogan: Absolutely. And I will say, as a freelancer, I signed so many contracts without reading them. So this is my first time actually reading a contract. So this is called Terms and Conditions for being my undefined partner. Number one Introduction and Acceptance of Agreement. The following shall to find an undefined relationship entered into between me, me, me and you. You Hank. This agreement is a binding contract wherein we can engage in an undefined partnership. These terms and conditions contain legal obligations for ensuring the smooth execution of this undefined relationship, and it is advisable that you read them closely prior to commitment, as you requested, that the following be drawn up when I asked, What are we for the 19th time? Ex-lover Disclosure It is advised that you disclose any undefined or defined partners from your past if you have them, which I prefer you do not. Please also include when you last spoke to them whether or not you think they're better looking than me and their Social Security numbers. This is just from my accountant. I don't personally care, although if there is has more sevens than mine, I will be jealous. I'm not legally permitted to get mad at you for speaking with ex-lovers as this relationship is undefined, but I am permitted to be vaguely passive aggressive for several days. Should they like one of your Instagrams? Meeting important people in my life. When you meet friends or anyone whom, I consider myself on amicable terms. You cannot say you're my friend as that hurts my feelings. But you also can't say we're dating. And that will confuse me. You may me, my parents, but only by accident. And only if you're not aware that my parents. You may not call them by their first names until we've been married five years. Should the relationship come to that? TV shows. I will pick what we watch until you decide you'd like to make this official. This is a standard clause for all undefined relationship agreements, according to my friend who once thought about applying to law school because her floral prints Etsy business was doing poorly. If you'd like to suggest a show, I'd like to suggest a change in relationship status. Intellectual property rights. I own the right to tweet out anything funny that we say in conversation because I have a bigger following. If something comes up in conversation that I don't intend to use on my Twitter, you may ask my permission to use it on yours. Although please be aware that this will make you look pathetic. I will be unlikely to retweet as our relationship is undefined. For more frequent retweets, consider changing the designation of this relationship. Limitation of liability or disclaimer. I don't know what this means. If you'd like this clause removed from the agreement. Consider defining the relationship. Emojis. Smiley emojis are permissible, but heart eyed emojis are not allowed if you'd like to change the status of the relationship. The appropriate emoji is the one with the palms pressed together to indicate joining. Also, please don't use the grimacing emoji in response to my tweets, as it does have the unintended effect of hurting my little feelings. Termination. Please don't. By clicking the agree button, you give me permission to tell everyone in my life that we are officially undefined partners.
Luke Burbank: That's Ginny Hogan reading from her book. I'm more dateable than a plate of refried beans here on Live Wire. Now, I follow you on Twitter and have for a good while. And I feel like you. I see you tweeting about a boyfriend. Are you now in a relationship?
Ginny Hogan: I am, yeah. I try to keep it ambiguous on Twitter because I use old jokes all the time, so I don't want to.
Luke Burbank: The Hogan Brand is of someone who's being frustrated in the dating space.
Ginny Hogan: Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes when I'm single, I need to tweet out an old joke about an old boyfriend. I need to. I have needs. I don't know.
Luke Burbank: Well, that's what I was wondering, is if it makes it more difficult for you to write material about dating and the challenges of that when you're actually in a happy, fulfilling relationship.
Ginny Hogan: I wouldn't say I'm in a happy, fulfilling relationship.
Luke Burbank: All right. So oftentimes when we have guests on the show, we like to give them a quiz of some kind kind of leaning on their expertize. But actually, in your book, I'm more dateable than a plate of refried beans. You actually have written a quiz. That's a real stumper. And we thought that it might be interesting to pose this quiz and these questions to you to see what how you respond since you've done this for your readers. Unfortunately, we cannot use the original title from your book on air because it involves the F-word. So we have decided to borrow an alternate FCC approved title from the esteemed British documentary series Love Island. By the way, shout out to our production intern Tanvi , who is our resident love island expert. So instead of f k, we're going with snog marry pi for the person who has been dating too long. So in case people are unfamiliar, you must instantly decide who you want to spend the rest of your life with. Out of these these three options to to spend the rest of your life with them. That's Mary.
Ginny Hogan: Mm hmm.
Luke Burbank: Or if you want to snog them, which is defined as a long sexual kiss between two people who are holding each other. Or if you want to throw a pie at them, that's pie. This is. Don't blame us. Blame Love Island. So of these three, who do you snog? Who do you marry? Who do you throw a pie at? Your sexual partner who doesn't talk to their mom? Your sexual partner who talks to their mom for 2 hours every day? Or your sexual partner who treats you like their mom?
Ginny Hogan: I'm going to marry the third one.
Luke Burbank: Okay. You're going to marry the person who treats you like their mom.
Ginny Hogan: That's a position of power. I will snog the one who talks to his mom for 2 hours a day and I will pie the one who does not do his mom.
Luke Burbank: Okay.
Ginny Hogan: All right. Which feels harsh because maybe he has a good reason. But, you know.
Luke Burbank: And honestly, you're just throwing the pie. It's not even killing.
Ginny Hogan: Kind of sexual. Yeah. Yeah.
Luke Burbank: Maybe that's his thing. Yeah. Maybe it's just been a long con to get some pie action for him. All right. Snog marry pie. The OkCupid. Her. Who sends you a copy? Pasted 200 word message. The OkCupider who only speaks in one word answers. Or the OkCupider who uses more emojis than words.
Ginny Hogan: I'm going to marry the one word answer guy. That's my type. I'm I think I will pie the copy paste message and I'll snog the more emojis somewhere.
Luke Burbank: It's nice. You don't find too many emojis to be a turnoff.
Ginny Hogan: I do, but I had to pick.
Luke Burbank: Life is full of hard decisions, isn't it? All right. A couple more here. Snog marry Pi with Jenny Hogan, the person with six roommates, but also six streaming service accounts to choose from. The person who has their own apartment but no Netflix. Or the person who lives 2 hours away but really and truly loves you.
Ginny Hogan: I think I wrote this when I was more into television than I am now because I'm definitely going to marry the one with his own apartment who lives near me. I guess I should marry the one who loves me. All right. Is that.
Luke Burbank: True love or their own apartment?
Ginny Hogan: Okay, I'll marry that one. I will snog the apartment guy, and I'm going have to pick the one with the roommates, even though I, you know, honestly, I'd marry any of these guys.
Luke Burbank: I want more. The snog marry pie. The 32 year old who says they're not looking for anything serious, the 38 year old who says they're too young to settle down, or the 23 year old who says they love older women. By the way, you're 27.
Ginny Hogan: Honestly, I wrote this when I was younger and I'm now dating a 25 year old who says he loves older women. So I guess I'll snog that one, but only snogs. I don't. In the event that he listens to this, I don't want to speed things up. I'm going to marry the I'll marry the 32 year old because it sounds like I'll have some time and develop love and I will pie the 38 year old.
Elena Passarello: Good choice.
Luke Burbank: All right. Those are sage choices from Jenny Hogan. Jenny Hogan, thank you so much for coming on, Livewire. That was Jenny Hogan right here on Live Wire. Her new book, I'm More Dateable than a Plate of Refried Beans, is available now. Live Wire is brought to you in part by Alaska Airlines. Alaska Airlines offers the most nonstop from the West Coast, including destinations like Hawaii, Palm Springs and San Francisco, and as a member of the OneWorld alliance. Alaska Airlines can connect you to more than 1000 destinations worldwide with their global partners. Learn more at Alaska AirCon.
Luke Burbank: You're listening to Live Wire from PRX, of course. Each week we ask our listeners a question in honor of Ginny Hogan's exploration of the world of dating. We asked the listeners, What is your biggest dating red flag? Elena has been collecting up those responses. What are you seeing?
Elena Passarello: Okay, how about this one from Bo? I hope none of these, by the way, actually happened to the people who sent them in. Please. But supposedly this is one.
Luke Burbank: This is one of the few times where hoping the listeners are lying.
Elena Passarello: To us. I hope it's all just fiction. I hope this is a lovely novel of things that never occur to real life. Bo suggests that Bo's biggest dating red flag is if they ask to get matching tattoos on the first date. I feel like I should ask you. So I have, like, never been on a date, like, ever. And so.
Luke Burbank: You're married?
Elena Passarello: Not one that I know of. Like, sometimes I would be out with somebody, and I'd realize that it was a date. But since I grew up in the theater, like, you're kind of just always hanging out with someone, and then all of a sudden you're married to them. Like, that's the way that it goes.
Luke Burbank: That was your that was your journey of love with David.
Elena Passarello: Yeah. No dates. But I want to know if any of these things have happened to you, because I know you have been on dates. Right.
Luke Burbank: I have been on a few dates in my day.
Elena Passarello: So. Anybody ever ask you to get matching tattoos?
Luke Burbank: No one's proposed matching. I mean, I may have. I mean, I'm on a date or two, but I mean, listen, that can go one of two ways. It's like I would imagine a lot of the stuff we're going to hear from these audience members about, like red flags. They're really red flags if you don't like the person.
Elena Passarello: Right.
Luke Burbank: Like if you were swooning for the person and they said, let's run away together or let's get matching tattoos today, you could be very into it.
Elena Passarello: Okay. Well, how about this one then, from Jim, when they ask about your mother's maiden name and the first pet you had as a child? When I first read that, I just thought it was like, Oh, this person hates small talk. But no, it's it's an identity theft situation. Yeah.
Luke Burbank: I can't remember the answers to any of those questions, by the way.
Elena Passarello: You don't know your mother's maiden name.
Luke Burbank: I know my mother's maiden name, but that's, like, too easy now.
Elena Passarello: That's also kind of sexist maiden name.
Luke Burbank: Exactly. But, you know, a lot of these online things now will have like a pretty involved series of questions, like what was the first kind of car you had? Or What's your favorite city or your favorite flavor of ice cream? And those things changed for me depending on the week. And so then I'm trying to remember what did I tell Chase Bank was my favorite ice cream in 2018.
Elena Passarello: Favoritism is so subjective, like they really exactly have actual facts.
Luke Burbank: What's another red flag from one of our listeners?
Elena Passarello: I dig this one from Hannah. When he disappears, every full moon.
Luke Burbank: Check under his collar. How hirsute is it?
Elena Passarello: Yeah, exactly. What's the body hair situation
Luke Burbank: When he comes back?
Elena Passarello: Although Teen Wolf, that guy was a great prom date. Do you remember the Teen Wolf when Michael J. Fox took Buffy to prom and they did a choreographed dance with the whole high school that looked like fun?
Luke Burbank: Absolutely. So maybe good prom date. Not a great life partner.
Elena Passarello: Yeah. Yes.
Luke Burbank: Werewolves?
Elena Passarello: Yes.
Luke Burbank: All right. Thank you to everyone who sent in your responses to our listener question. We've got another one for next week's show, which we will reveal in just a few. So stick around for that. In the meantime, our next guest is a two time national poetry slam champion. The winner of the International World Cup Poetry Slam, and the current poet laureate of Oregon. In fact, he is so good that this is actually his second term as the poet laureate of Oregon. His work is appeared on HBO in the pages of the New York Times and in five books of poetry. We sure love this person, and we hope you will, too. Take a listen to a nice Anis Mojgani right here on Live Wire.
Anis Mojgani: Evening. Evening? Yes. It's a little poem I wrote recently. Do you remember after when we were eating chicken and rice, when I said to you that I always love you, but today, right now I'm in love with you. And you smiled sheepishly and sweetly. And at the same time. And I said, your face looked like an ocean agate. Glowing. Do you remember this? Surely you must. It was just last week. And it was such a sweet thing for me to have said to you. And such a sweet way for you to have made me feel. So sweet. I had to write it down here for you. For me? For both of us.
Luke Burbank: Anis Mojgani everyone. That would have to be the quickest I've gone from not crying to crying on this show like that was zero to tearing up just from those words like how beautiful and sweet that was.
Anis Mojgani: That's why I get paid the mediocre dollars.
Luke Burbank: Anis Welcome back to the show now. We have been trying to get you back on for kind of a long time and usually there is a scheduling issue because you're currently the poet laureate of Oregon.
Anis Mojgani: That is correct.
Luke Burbank: What like what are the actual duties of being the poet laureate?
Anis Mojgani: I mean, on paper, the duties are to make ten appearances a year. And so, of course, in the pandemic, that is a little bit of a different thing of what constitutes an appearance. The duty of it is is to be a steward to and for poetry, too, and for the people of Oregon. And so every which way I find the ways to to make that happen is, is what I do to explore over the tenure of my employment.
Luke Burbank: So are you sort of the number one promoter of poetry or keeper of, I don't know, the flame of interest in poetry?
Anis Mojgani: There is a flame and the flame needs tending. So I'll say this story and perhaps that'll like help illustrate. I was getting a burrito with my friend Jen and we're sitting at this table. It's an outdoor food lot, and there's this person that's yelling for their friend from the back of the lot to come towards them. And they're kind of like Josh in their bud and just like, Hey, you, creeper. Come on, let's go. And so Jen and I are chuckling, and then the friend starts making their way towards the front. And there, there the core was so wonderful. They had, like, a mullet and they needed a shave and they had this big, swarthy eighties mustache and one dangly earring and motorcycle gloves and a motorcycle jacket. And then this like hot, bright, neon, pink baseball cap while they were walking past. They sort of like look over and see Jen and I. And this grin pops up on their face and there's like a poet laureate. And fist bump to me, and they're like. I'll see you at your next show. And they hop on their bike and drive this bright silver sparkle motorcycle helmet. And I was saying to Jen, like, that's the engagement that should be with everybody and every poet all the time. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And so if it was, if it's Lori and I'm able to like carve us a little bit closer to arriving there, you know, then that's, that's my task at hand.
Luke Burbank: It sounds like it's working, at least with that guy. Yeah, with that guy. And I just heard I overheard you and Alena talking backstage about this project you've been doing on Friday nights where you're delivering poetry from a window.
Anis Mojgani: Yes.
Luke Burbank: So see, poet laureate.
Anis Mojgani: Yeah. So, like in in February, I got this new art studio not too far from my house, and it has like, it's it's a very bland building. And the window of it just kind of looks like the kind of window where there would be no signage, but it would just you would know that you could wrap your fist on the window and hand somebody $5 when it opens and you would be handed. A great two mediocre sub, you know. And my friend Jen, the same Jen from the poet laureate situation, had, like come by and knocked on the window and I didn't pass her sandwich, but we were like just sort of conversing through the window. And we're like, This is super fun. This feels very much like very Americana. This feels like very 2 to 7 or Sesame Street. And we're like, we should like do this with other people, whatever that means. And we're like, Yeah, let's do that. And it was like, you could you could read poems. I was like, I could read poems. She was like, You want to do that tomorrow? And I was like, Not tomorrow. What about the next day? I was like, I'll do the next day. And so, you know, I made a poster and threw it up on Instagram and 50, 60 folks came out and threw down chairs and blankets on the sidewalk and street and listened to me say poems. And a couple weeks after that, we did again. And there was 120 people. And ever since then we've been doing it, you know, every two, three weeks. And it happens on Fridays at sunset. The big reason or the big thing that we seek to do with this space is to create something that is non expectation or non transactional, that it's simply an invitation to share space with other humans. And so, you know, however, which way that one is going to to do that, you know, of course, the hope is that the way that an individual does that is not by causing a ruckus, but like but you know, that it's not we don't want to create a show that is asking people to be present in a certain way. You know, that I'm going to do a song and dance and they in turn are going to like give applause. It's just going to be that we're going to share, you know, 40 minutes under dust together, and that'll be that nice.
Luke Burbank: Well, can we hear another poem?
Anis Mojgani: Certainly.
Luke Burbank: Woody, what are you going to share with us next?
Anis Mojgani: Luke This is a poem called Things I Love.
Luke Burbank: All right. This is an H mahogany here on Live Wire.
Anis Mojgani: Things I love the blues The night sky makes the balls it holds for the stars to shine inside of the sound of a fire moving its tongue against the wood, riding bicycles with friends. Learning of the lives of others. Getting to know our best and worst birthdays. I love a holy sunset, which feels as if the sky is praying to me. To us asking us to look at it and know the fierce colors which lay in its clouds that even the sky needs. But the right hour, the right person looking at it, knowing what beauty it holds just inside, waiting to pour forth. I love the crows on Mars. They're crossing inside that prayer bunched together in their loudness. A day's end, their flight looking like the sky breaking apart to spread itself further. I love a spreading further in order to come closer to see what we might arrive at a wandering with intent. I love not making plans and making plans, scheming schemes, building the idea of an ark like it was a boat becoming bigger upon being greeted by the water, it asks to touch it. I love how the ocean wants to hold us but doesn't know how love that even the ocean does not know things. That even the ocean struggles to move against its nature. And in this way, maybe becomes more. I love colors. How they lay on us and hold us when they make an object. But a plane of their shade. The way they slid and smooth and spill and washed, pale or so deep. I love colors so much. How do I love a thing so much that has no form, nothing to touch? Simply is though. Is this not, I suppose what all love is even an object holding our love is but a place older so that we can try to actually touch the intangible in our palms. How the body too is like this. I love writing love poems more so the living of them love writing in ink, a scrap of a note even as my desk becomes flooded by scraps of notes. Whether they say fuzzy rhythmic vocals or a sunflower taught me a poem, or the emptiness, a missing, or simply measurements of my sleeves. I love when the sun lands on one spot. Love eating fruit of a bush on a street or pulled from a tree or fallen from a branch like a gift. Hugging friends. Goodbye. Even though I hate goodbyes when full houses become empty. But for me when an empty house becomes full. Learning something new. The thought of sewing a quilt with a friend and their mother taking February to begin piano lessons. The Piano. How I love the piano. I love when someone plays the piano. When you didn't know they could play the piano, when they don't feel they know how to play the piano. But there they are in the soft, quiet that kisses the two of you playing it. And my heart in this soft quiet is going from bud to bloom to petals on a floor in one breath. I love that people want to share things with each other, even when sometimes we do not know how to do this. I love. This. Is this not to love itself is you sharing you and me sharing me and us sharing and being shared with each other. Back and forth for whatever length always may be. Thank you.
Unidentified: Anis Mojgani here on Live Wire.
Luke Burbank: That was a Anis Mojgani here on Live Wire. He's got a new collection coming out next spring, as well as a children's book. Lifespans of a Rock, which will be out in 2024. I'm Luke Burbank, here with Elena Passarello. We've got to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. We've got much more coming up on Live Wire. Welcome back to Live Wire from PRX. I'm Luke Burbank, here with Elena Passarello. All right, before we get to this week's musical guests, a little preview of next week's show. First up, we're going to be talking to the poet Kaveh Akbar on why he is poetry's number one cheerleader. We're also going to talk to writer Danielle Henderson about how a tough childhood nurtured her sense of humor. Plus, we'll have some music from deep sea diver. Wonderful band from here in the Pacific Northwest. And we'll also have a question for you, the Live Wire audience that we would love to get your responses to. Elena What are we asking the listeners for next week's show?
Anis Mojgani: We want to know what is something that you are way better at as a child.
Luke Burbank: That's a great.
Anis Mojgani: Question. Everything but driving for me.
Luke Burbank: I honestly like the older I get, the worse I am. It so much stuff. Digestion and sleep. If you've got an answer to that question, go ahead and submit it on Twitter or via Facebook. We are at Live Wire Radio. Our musical guests this week first came to our attention as the dynamite guest vocalist for Pink Martini, with whom he's performed with around the world and also on Live Wire not to brag. He's perhaps best known these days for his jaw dropping performance on the 2021 season of America's Got Talent, including receiving the coveted golden buzzer. This is Jimmie Herrod performing live on Livewire last month. Hello.
Jimmie Herrod: Welcome back. Hello. Hello. Happy to be back. How are you two?
Luke Burbank: Good. It's so nice to see you in person. We we talked to you on Zoom at one point when you were in New York. And it was funny because you played this like beautiful song for us. And then I think you said something like, I hope my neighbors aren't annoyed. And I was like, I have had an apartment in New York, and let me tell you, you would be the dream neighbor.
Jimmie Herrod: Oh, I could hear every, I think, rat I later discovered in the walls. So not my neighbors. I guess maybe they weren't that disturbed, but thank you.
Luke Burbank: You know, actually, the last time I saw you and I don't know if you'll remember this, but I do, only barely, because I was a little bit tuned up. It was in an elevator at the Lowes Hotel. Yes, in L.A. we both got in, and I was like, what are you doing here? And you're like, I'm winning America's Got Talent. And I didn't know you were just, like, tearing through that competition, but you did really, really well in that.
Jimmie Herrod: Thank you. Yeah. You know, it's a it's a competition and it's TV, and it's opened so many doors for me, while also like, it's it's a lot of work, but it's it's been really fruitful for me. And it was funny to see you there because of all the people and like. Hello. What is Luke doing there? I'm constantly seeing the other competitors, but. And we're not even on the same episode. So we're like, Oh my God, you're here too, and you're still in the competition. Oh, great.
Luke Burbank: Did you think I was there competing as a public radio host? You could have been.
Jimmie Herrod: You started singing from.
Luke Burbank: How sad would Simon have been if I was like This week on this American Live Wire like if I was just there to host the public radio as my HGTV act, I would have been. Yeah, whatever the the fastest someone's gotten three exes. But now what's it been like for you? Because, you know, you you've had this great career so far and you sing with Pink Martini, so people know who you are. But that's a different level of awareness, right? Yeah. Like people recognizing you in public now and stuff like how is that for you?
Jimmie Herrod: It's shocking, I think. I think the most shocking place I was recognized was at night. Mind you, I don't know how they saw me because I was an all black and it was very dark. But in Romania and you're the guy, can I get a photo? I'm like, use flash. And I'm still surprised. And like, you know, I've been really fortunate to have people recognize my hair, especially if I wear a hat. No one sees me. So it's totally changed my life.
Luke Burbank: Yeah. I was wondering, I know that at a certain points in your career, you've also taught vocal jazz and and music to folks. And I'm just wondering, like, what would you do when somebody who really, really wanted to be a singer just didn't have it? Like they had the desire, but not the voice? Did you did you have a way of kind of trying to gently explain to someone that that.
Jimmie Herrod: Computers can fix everything? Is that the answer now.
Luke Burbank: Was I could get in? I said, Oh.
Jimmie Herrod: You know, a voice is something everyone has. Okay, I'm not going to take that. Anyone who wants to say.
Luke Burbank: You know, always get better, all right.
Jimmie Herrod: You can always get better. I mean, I got so many emails during the show and still that I like. I hear you teach well, you teach my kid over Zoom and I'm like, the zoom days are over, right? For the most part. But we had some lovely zoom days. So yes, we do. But yeah, you know, there are still people asking for lessons and you know, that's that in itself is quite a compliment, actually.
Luke Burbank: So what song are we going to hear first?
Jimmie Herrod: Oh, okay. So this is a song that is about traveling and meeting someone on the road that's handsome and not understanding a word they're saying, but they're just trying to say, I like you, too.
Luke Burbank: All right. Jimmy Herrod and the Live Wire House Band here on Live Wire.
[Jimmie Herrod Sings]
Luke Burbank: That was Jimmie Herrod performing on Live Wire last month here in Portland. His solo album of original works Falling in Love and Learning to Love Myself is available now and you can follow him on Instagram like I am Jimmie Underscore Herrod. That's Jimmie spelled with an I E underscore Herrod. All right. That's going to do it for this week's episode of Live Wire. A huge thanks to our guests Ginny Hogan, Anis Mojgani and Jimmie Herrod. Live Wire is brought to you in part by Alaska Airlines.
Elena Passarello: Laura Hadden is our executive producer. Heather de Michele is our executive director and our producer and editor is Melanie Sevcenko. Molly Pettit is our technical director and mixer, and our house sound is D. Neil Blake. Tre Hester is our assistant editor. Rosa Garcia is our operations associate. And Julienne McElmurry is our intern. Our house band is Ethan Fox Tucker, Sam Tucker, Ayal Alves and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music.
Luke Burbank: Additional funding provided by the Regional Arts and Culture Council and the James F and Marion L. Miller Foundation. Live Wire was created by Robin Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff. This week we'd like to thank members Carlos Osorio of Vancouver, Washington, and Eric Rimkeit of Portland, Oregon. For more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast, head on over the Live Wire Radio dot org. I'm Luke Burbank for Elena Passarello and the whole Live Wire Crew. Thanks for listening and we will see you next week.
Speaker 3: PRX.