Episode 558

with Michelle Zauner, Sean Patton, and Kurt Vile

Musician and writer Michelle Zauner, a.k.a. Japanese Breakfast, discusses her memoir Crying in H Mart, in which she reconnects with her late mother and their Korean heritage through a love of food; stand-up comedian Sean Patton pokes fun at regional airports with a tough TSA; and singer-songwriter Kurt Vile confesses to being Philadelphia's best forklift driver, before performing "Flyin (Like a Fast Train)" from his latest album (watch my moves). Plus, host Luke Burbank and announcer Elena Passarello reveal what our listeners would like to normalize.

Michelle Zauner

Musician & Author

Michelle Zauner is best known as a singer and guitarist who creates dreamy, shoegaze-inspired indie pop under the name Japanese Breakfast. She has won acclaim from major music outlets around the world for her albums Psychopomp, Soft Sounds from Another Planet , and Jubilee. Zauner’s viral essay in The New Yorker led to her memoir, Crying in H Mart. The book, a New York Times bestseller, follows Zauner’s experiences growing up Korean-American, losing her mother to cancer, and forging her own identity. It is now being adapted into a film from Orion Pictures, for which Japanese Breakfast will provide the soundtrack. Website • Instagram • Twitter

Sean Patton

Comedian

Sean Patton is “the sort of comedian who puts the ‘art’ in ‘fart’” (Chortle). Patton has appeared on Comedy Central’s Live at Gotham, Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, Conan, and Comedy Central’s The Half Hour. As an actor, he’s had roles on IFC's Maron, Comedy Central's Inside Amy Schumer and TruTV’s Those Who Can’t. His third comedy album, King Scorpio, has a different style than his other works having been described as being more centered and mature, and is based on recordings of his shows at Helium Comedy Club in Portland. Website • Instagram • Twitter

Kurt Vile

Singer-Songwriter

Philadelphia psych-pop master Kurt Vile is undoubtedly one of his home city's most celebrated rock artists. A singer-songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, and record producer, he is best known for his solo albums and his work as lead guitarist with The War on Drugs. He’s also collaborated with John Prine, Courtney Barnett, and Dinosaur Jr., among many others. Kurt’s ninth studio album, (watch my moves) was released with legendary jazz label Verve Records. The creative result of two years at home after more than a decade of near-constant touring, (watch my moves) is a vibrant yet meditative album, propelled as usual by Kurt's laid-back charm and curious spirit. Website • Instagram • Twitter

• Full Transcript

  Luke Burbank: [00:00:00] Hey, Elena. [00:00:01][0.2]

  Elena Passarello: [00:00:01] Hey, Luke. How's it going? [00:00:02][1.0]

  Luke Burbank: [00:00:03] It's going great. I'm so excited for this week's show. We've got Kurt Vile, one of my favorite musicians. It's going to be awesome. First, though, we've got to start with a little "Station, Location, Identification Examination." This is where I tell you about a place in America where Live Wire is on the radio. You try to guess where I'm talking about. This place is at the western end of the St Lawrence Seaway, and it is home to North America's largest and farthest inland freshwater port. [00:00:30][26.9]

  Elena Passarello: [00:00:31] Duluth, Minnesota. [00:00:31][0.4]

  Luke Burbank: [00:00:32] Absolutely right. You just I mean, you didn't skip a beat with that one. I didn't have to even tell you that. It's also the birthplace of one Robert Zimmerman, a.k.a. Bob Dylan. [00:00:41][9.0]

  Elena Passarello: [00:00:41] Not Hibbing, Duluth, not Hibbing. [00:00:43][1.8]

  Luke Burbank: [00:00:43] I've always thought it was Hibbing, but I guess Duluth is now taking taking the credit for being the birthplace of Bob Dylan. [00:00:50][6.9]

  Elena Passarello: [00:00:51] Yeah, well, maybe he moved. [00:00:52][0.9]

  Luke Burbank: [00:00:53] He must have. He was like a Rolling Stone. That's. Oh, that was. That's a brutal start to the show that we should probably get to it. Take it away, Elena! [00:01:01][8.5]

  Elena Passarello: [00:01:07] From PRX. It's Live Wire This week, writer and musician Michelle Zauner. [00:01:13][5.9]

  Michelle Zauner: [00:01:14] One major point of contention between my mom and I was that I had this creative energy and I had this real desire to become a rock musician. [00:01:21][6.9]

  Elena Passarello: [00:01:22] And standup Sean Patton. [00:01:23][1.4]

  Sean Patton: [00:01:24] I get to every single airport early for one reason unlimited fast food. [00:01:28][4.1]

  Elena Passarello: [00:01:29] With music from Kurt Vile. [00:01:31][1.4]

  Kurt Vile: [00:01:32] My my note to myself is literally just two words. It's got a yodel, you know, like. [00:01:36][4.5]

  Elena Passarello: [00:01:38] I'm your announcer Elena Passarello and now the host of Live Wire Luke Burbank. [00:01:45][6.5]

  Luke Burbank: [00:01:47] Hey, thank you so much, Elena Passarello. Thanks to everyone for tuning in from all over the country for this amazing episode of Live Wire this week. Of course, we asked our listeners a question. We asked them, What would you like to normalize? We're going to get those responses coming up in a few minutes. First, though, of course, we get to start things with the best news we heard all week this. This is our a little reminder at the top of the show. There is some good news happening out there in the world. Elena What is the best news that you saw this week? [00:02:17][30.4]

  Elena Passarello: [00:02:17] Reunion story. I love these. It starts 20 years ago in Utah when Holly Shearer was a teenager who became pregnant and arranged for an adoption. Okay. She met and selected the parents who adopted the baby, Benjamin, shortly after his birth and then received a few letters for several years, letters and pictures from the adoption agency. But then, you know, time passed and the adoption agency closed. And Holly always wondered, you know, like, how's Ben doing? Sort of lost touch. Looked for him, found him on social media when he was about 18, but didn't want to intervene in his life and his childhood. But she had no idea that he had been looking for her this whole time too, the way he was brought up, her name was always mentioned with gratitude. He knew he his mom was named Holly, and they were his parents were so grateful to her. And but he didn't even know how to start looking for her. He put himself on an adoption registry. He got a DNA test, but he wasn't really sure how to make this happen once he became an adult. Well, fast forward to his 21st birthday. She sends him a text. He's at work. He drops the phone. He can't take it. He immediately texts her back and he's just like, When can we meet? When can we meet? And she she couldn't believe it. It was just immediately positive response. So his family and her family, because she has went on to have two more kids. They all met at Red Robin. Huge, teary reunion talk for 3 hours, rebuilt a bunch of relationships. Ben says he feels whole. You know, but the best part about this is Holly works as a medical assistant at a medical center in Salt Lake City, where Ben has been volunteering in the NICU unit for years. So they were parking in the same garage. They were passing each other in the hallway at the same time, and they never knew. And now, you know, this is one of those great stories of both people consensually wanted to know each other, and they did. He can just drop in and grab a cup of coffee with her every time he comes in for his volunteer job. Isn't it amazing? [00:04:24][126.8]

  Luke Burbank: [00:04:25] That's incredible. So you just, like, walk down to wherever it is Holly's working and say, Hey, Mom. Yeah. Should we go down and get some of that legendary hospital coffee out of the machine? [00:04:34][9.0]

  Elena Passarello: [00:04:34] That's the only downside to this story is a lot of most of the rooms don't get to take place at Red Robin. It's probably a vending machine, hot cocoa kind of situations. [00:04:43][8.1]

  Luke Burbank: [00:04:44] That is incredible. I have a sort of a story of a family. It's about a family of kittens, though. So this guy named Robert Brantley was driving somewhere on the back roads of northeast Louisiana. Now, let me just tell you about Robert Brantley. He is a professional shooter and I've been to his Instagram page and everything on his Instagram page is about target shooting and, you know, gear that you use. And like, this is a very, let's just say, sort of macho guy in the world. Robert Brantley And he's driving to his to the target range being Robert Brantley, and then he sees a kitten on the side of the road and he pulls over his Honda and he goes to get the kitten. And then 12 more kittens emerge from the brush. It was almost like they had a plan. They were like, If there's 12 of us, nobody's picking us up. You Muffins, you go stand by the road, get their attention. I don't know if any of the cats are named Muffins, but you get the idea. So he's trying to corral these 13 kittens into his Honda, and he starts recording it on his phone because every time he has the trunk open, every time he puts one cat in, another, one jumps out. That's totally not cooperating with Operation Kitten Rescue. This is what it sounds like. [00:06:01][77.3]

  Robert Brantley: [00:06:02] The tactical handler was not prepared for the. Oh, yeah, soft hearted. [00:06:12][10.4]

  Luke Burbank: [00:06:13] So at the end, it's kind of hard to make out what he says versus the tactical honda is not equipped for this and then he says, soft hearted. This sucks. Like he's mad at himself that he's saving all these kittens. But he did. He brought them all home. As you might imagine, the Internet has gone insane for this, and all of the kittens as of press time have been adopted out except a couple that were dealing with some medical stuff. But a vet came and looked at them and they're on the mend. And so all of these kittens are going to find a good home where they can live out their years. [00:06:47][34.1]

  Elena Passarello: [00:06:47] Was it just like a mama cat had a bunch of babies in the brush and like a stray cats. [00:06:51][4.1]

  Luke Burbank: [00:06:52] It's unclear if if maybe somebody had a bunch of kittens and didn't know what to do with them. I would say don't drop them off in the wilderness. No, no, no, dude. There's lots of places that will take them. Yeah, like me. Now that I'm officially a cat person, Elena. I bought my cat a treadmill (nice). My cat has more sophisticated exercise equipment than I do. [00:07:11][18.9]

  Elena Passarello: [00:07:12] You just have that jump rope. [00:07:13][0.8]

  Luke Burbank: [00:07:14] Let's start calling her Million-Dollar Bubbles because I will have spent roughly $1,000,000 on her by the time that's all said and done. But anyway, kittens being saved in Louisiana by an unlikely person. That's the best news that I saw this week. All right. Let's get our first guest on over here. She might be best known for her music, which she performs as Japanese breakfast, but she also knows a lot about food and a lot about grief as she writes in her amazing memoir, Crying in H. Mart, which details her mother's passing and the connection that they made through food. Let's take a listen to this. It's our conversation with Michelle Zauner. This book is incredible. We're also really big fans of your music. I want to start at the beginning, though, of this memoir. What is H Mart and why do you love it so much? [00:08:13][58.3]

  Michelle Zauner: [00:08:14] H Mart is a grocery chain now. It's a Korean grocery chain. And I found myself going there a lot after my mom, who is Korean, passed away. And it was a real like key to my grieving process, I guess. You know, I lived as a caretaker for six months in Eugene during my mom's illness, and for a long time I could only really remember these really traumatic experiences of like watching her health deteriorate and going to H. Mart for the first time. It was like uncovering a lot of that sort of trauma. And I would see a can of like sweet beans. And I have this memory of my childhood of when my mom and I would eat like this Korean snow cone together with red bean and different types of fruit. And then I would see like Bong Diggy, which are like these Styrofoam type of like corn. They're like rice cakes kind of. And I ate them a lot as a kid. And so it like, helps me excavate a lot of, like, really beautiful memories that I had of my mom before she was sick. And I became just so comforted by going there and going there once, once a week. I still go there pretty much once a week. [00:09:24][70.7]

  Luke Burbank: [00:09:25] Do you find writing something like this a memoir and writing your music? Do they kind of come from the same place in your brain and your heart, or are they really different kind of creative experiences? [00:09:36][10.9]

  Michelle Zauner: [00:09:37] They're similar in the way that I feel like, you know, you're taking from the same pool of memory and sort of taking a magnifying glass to the ordinary and discovering meaning and depth. And what's extraordinary about that moment, I think that it's basically leaning into your sensitivities as a person for both of those things. Writing a book felt a lot longer and harder and there are a lot more words, and that was the main difference, I think. [00:10:05][27.8]

  Luke Burbank: [00:10:06] You grew up mostly in Oregon and your mom is originally was from Korea. Your dad is a white guy from the U.S.. What was that like? What was that like, generally speaking, in your childhood to kind of grow up in that environment? [00:10:19][13.2]

  Michelle Zauner: [00:10:21] It was delightful in some ways. I think that as a as a child, I really felt like I had the best of both worlds. That was something that made me feel very special. Obviously, like Eugene is not rich with too much diversity in its population. So when I became a teenager, I started to, I guess, just feel a little bit uncomfortable being mixed race. You know, obviously, like Eugene is like a pretty like outward facing liberal town. So I wouldn't say that I encountered like a tremendous amount of, you know, aggressive racism. But, you know, when you're a teenager, any small difference in your person and character like feels, you know, just like a scab, like anything that marks you as different. And so I think in my adolescence, I sort of shirked that part of my identity for a long time. And then it wasn't until my mom got sick that I found myself sort of chasing after something I had pushed away. And in a sense, little things really, like, you know, my mom's name was Chang, me and my middle name was Chung me. And when I was younger, I used to pretend I didn't have a middle name because Michelle Zauner sound so white passing. And I just didn't. I just never wanted anyone to assume anything about me because I was Asian and I wanted to be like this neutral body that could just like, prove itself on entry or something like that. And, you know, I was embarrassed that people would mispronounce it like chow mein. So I just would do little things like that to kind of like distance myself from that part of myself. [00:11:46][84.8]

  Luke Burbank: [00:11:46] I think I felt reading this book, like I really got an interesting view into your mom's personality. And one of the ways that it really comes out is in like her food preferences. Would you mind reading a little bit where you talk about, you know, the stuff that your mom liked to eat and the way that she would order her food wherever she might have been? [00:12:05][19.0]

  Michelle Zauner: [00:12:07] Yeah. What I never seem to forget is what my mother ate. She was a woman of many, usually half a patty melt on rye with a side of steak fries to share at the Terrace Cafe. After a day of shopping, an unsweetened iced tea with half a packet of Splenda, which she would insist she never use on anything else. Minestrone, she'd order steamy hot, not steaming hot, with extra broth from the Olive Garden on special occasions. Half a dozen oysters on the half shell with champagne, mignonette and steamy hot French onion soup from Jake's in Portland. She was maybe the only person in the world who'd request steamy hot fries from a McDonald's drive thru in earnest, jump on spicy seafood noodle soup with extra vegetables from Cafe Soul, which she always called Soul Cafe, transposing the syntax of her native tongue. She loved roasted chestnuts in the winter, though they gave her horrible gas. She liked salted peanuts with light beer. She drank two glasses of chardonnay almost every day, but would get sick if she had a third. She ate spicy pickled peppers with pizza. At Mexican restaurants, she ordered finely chopped jalapenos on the side. She ordered dressings on the side. She hated cilantro, avocados and bell peppers. She was allergic to celery. She rarely ate sweets, with the exception of the occasional pint of strawberry Haagen-Dazs, a bag of tangerine jelly beans, one or two sees chocolate truffles around Christmas time and a blueberry cheesecake on her birthday. She rarely snacked or took breakfast. She had a salty hand. [00:13:35][88.6]

  Luke Burbank: [00:13:37] That was Michelle Zauner reading from her memoir Crying in H. Mart here on Live Wire Radio. From PRX, I'm Luke Burbank. That's Elena Passarello over there. Now, we got to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. When we come back. Michelle is going to tell us what item we simply must take home when shopping at an actual H Mart. Stay with us. Back in a moment. Welcome back to Live Wire. I'm your host, Luke Burbank, here with the Elena Passarello. We are listening back to a conversation we had with Michelle Zauner. She is the musician who plays under the moniker Japanese Breakfast. We are talking to Michelle about her memoir, Crying in H Mart. Let's pick that up now with a question from Alena. [00:15:25][107.8]

  Elena Passarello: [00:15:28] What was your approach or maybe when in the process did you know that food was going to be such an important part of the memoir? [00:15:36][7.9]

  Michelle Zauner: [00:15:37] From the beginning, really, the first essay I wrote was largely about Maangchi, who is this Korean YouTube vlogger who has really kind of demystified the Korean cooking process to a lot of English speakers. She's very famous. She has like 5 million YouTube subscribers. And she's such a she's been so generous with her time and knowledge. And yeah, you know, I just thought it was a really sweet story because after my mom passed away, I just was naturally drawn to learning how to cook Korean food for a variety of reasons that are in the book, in part because I, I felt like my culture needed protecting in a way that I had always felt like innately Korean because my mom was Korean. And then when she passed away, it felt like this thing I had to really work to preserve. And yeah, there's a variety of things that happen in the book. But but I found myself turning to this woman and cooking with this woman. And I just thought it was a really sweet story that, like, it's kind of like a Korean. Julie and Julia, where like, this woman I had, like, never met but had come to mean so much to me and had anchored me through through this really difficult time in my life. And, you know, that sort of was the step towards like why I even ended up in H Mart, you know, once a week to begin with was because in order to make these recipes, I had to go get the ingredients. And then I found myself in this grocery store that brought back so many wonderful memories that I had kind of forgotten about. And so I always knew that that was going to be the sort of major thematic vehicle in this book. [00:17:07][90.7]

  Luke Burbank: [00:17:08] You know, one of the things you also mentioned about your mom was that she did a lot of kooky things, like trying to make you grow taller or like pinch your nose when you were a kid. And, B, I think what we might describe in this day and age as like pretty critical about certain things. When did you start to reconcile this obvious deep love between the two of you with also this kind of, you know, some of the things that she was doing to try to make you the best version of yourself? I think you're right. [00:17:37][28.6]

  Michelle Zauner: [00:17:38] I mean, I think a lot of mothers and daughters have this really complicated relationship. One thing I've quoted a lot and I'm not entirely sure what episode is it's from, but in The Sopranos, Tony says something to Carmela, where he says, like, you know, her and Meadow, their daughter, are fighting. And he says, oh, mothers and their daughters, you know, don't worry, Carmen, she'll return to you. I think in a lot of ways that some something that a lot of, you know, teenage girls in their moms go through. And, you know, my mom one major point of contention between my mom and I was that I had this creative energy and I had this real desire to become I wanted to become a rock musician. And, you know, as an immigrant parent who had, you know, major cultural differences from me, that was something that my mom felt was really her duty to protect me from. It was something that she felt I did not understand the real financial risk of and also the amount of rejection. And I was I was bound to face with that sort of lifestyle. So my mom really felt like it was her duty to protect me from that. And of course, I just hated her for it because I had discovered this passion that I had and this thing that I loved. And I felt like she was really in the way of it. And it wasn't until I went to college and sort of entered my early twenties that, you know, when we had a really meaningful phone call where she said to me, I realize I just I just never met someone like you. And that was like such an intense moment for me, because that's not something that you really expect to hear from your parent who's supposed to know you best. And I think that that was sort of her way of saying like, I think I get it now. You know, this weird thing I thought you would grow out of is is not maybe a weird thing that you're going to grow up. [00:19:12][93.8]

  Luke Burbank: [00:19:14] It's interesting to note, I guess, that the first album you released while playing as Japanese Breakfast was after your mom passed away. And I know you've described that album as being very much related to your mom's passing. What do you think she would have made of of the fact that that's the album that really put you on the map for a lot of people musically? [00:19:31][17.2]

  Michelle Zauner: [00:19:32] I have no idea. I mean, I think that she would be thrilled, you know? I mean, my mom, unfortunately never got to see me experience any sort of success as an artist. And, you know, there have been so many times mentally that I've been like I told you so. But, you know, it's a really strange, serendipitous thing. My life became very charmed after she passed away, you know, And it feel I'm not a religious person or a particularly spiritual person, but it does feel like my mom has looked out for me. And in a way, because I've I've only had great luck and successes in art. Since she passed away and and made this very personal art about that experience. And so, yeah, I mean, I'm sure she would be she would be thrilled. I recently did like a photoshoot for Harper's Bazaar where they put me in a Chanel suit. And my mom, like my mom, like most Korean women, was like, obsessed with Chanel. And they were like, Yeah, just tell us a little bit. Show us your tattoos. Like, we like the juxtaposition of the luxury with like, you know, something harder. And I was like, God, if my mom can only hear you Say That because, like, my mom hated my tattoos and would have just been so delighted to see me like that, you know? [00:20:42][69.8]

  Elena Passarello: [00:20:42] Oh, that's amazing. [00:20:43][0.5]

  Luke Burbank: [00:20:46] Is there anything that you feel like you understand about grief and loss now as we interview you that you wouldn't have known, you know, before your mom got sick? [00:20:56][10.1]

  Michelle Zauner: [00:20:57] Yeah, actually, there's a line and, you know, there's a lot of sort of borrowed lines from Japanese Breakfast songs that made their way into crying in Mart. That's sort of the real heads will recognize as Easter eggs. [00:21:10][13.0]

  Luke Burbank: [00:21:11] But only the real heads know. [00:21:12][1.2]

  Michelle Zauner: [00:21:12] Only the real heads know. There's a new song that just came out called called Posing in Bondage that I released. And there's a line in that song that says, When the world divides into two people, those who have felt pain and those who have yet to. And that line also makes an appearance in the book and is a little bit more thought out. But, you know, one thing that grief really opened up to me is I feel like other people who've experienced loss are more readily able to connect with, you know, knowing that you've endured the same kind of feeling. And one of the heartbreaking parts of my story is that I felt like things were just starting to get really great again between my mother and I. And I had this very limited few years where, you know, we had sort of like drifted apart in my adolescence and then come back together and start to really appreciate each other as like peers, as adults and be able to confide in each other. And I'm very sad that I didn't get to have longer with with my mother in that way. [00:22:09][56.5]

  Luke Burbank: [00:22:09] Hmm. A more, I guess, sort of prosaic question. If somebody finds themselves in an H Mart, what is the one thing they have to make sure that they taste or make sure they pick up from like an ingredient section? And then this is a maybe an impossible question to answer because there's like 8 billion things there. But like, what's what's something people should not miss if they find themselves at an H Mart, in your opinion? [00:22:33][24.0]

  Michelle Zauner: [00:22:35] I mean, I guess like any good Korean, I'd have to say kimchi, you know, I mean, they have a great selection of kimchi. But, you know, something like less basic, I guess is I'm a big fan of it's not even Korean, but Kewpie mayonnaise. I highly recommend everyone invest in a tube of Kewpie mayonnaise. It's a Japanese mayonnaise and it tastes so much better than than regular mayonnaise. [00:23:01][25.9]

  Luke Burbank: [00:23:02] What do you attribute that to? Is it is it. [00:23:03][1.7]

  Michelle Zauner: [00:23:04] I think it has MSG in it. (YEAH!). [00:23:05][0.8]

  Luke Burbank: [00:23:08] So Kewpie mayonnaise and and obviously some kimchi. Michelle, thanks so much for coming on the Live Wire house party. [00:23:15][6.4]

  Michelle Zauner: [00:23:15] Thank you so much for having me. [00:23:16][1.3]

  Luke Burbank: [00:23:19] That was Michelle Zauner right here on Live Wire. Her memoir, Crying in H. Mart is now available as a paperback and Elena is being turned into a major motion picture. [00:23:30][10.8]

  Elena Passarello: [00:23:31] Awesome. [00:23:31][0.0]

  Luke Burbank: [00:23:32] Can't wait to see how that how that turns into a movie. So we'll be watching for that. Live Wire is brought to you in part by Alaska Airlines. Alaska Airlines offers the most nonstop from the West Coast, including destinations like Hawaii, Palm Springs and San Francisco. And as a member of the OneWorld alliance, Alaska Airlines can connect you to more than 1000 destinations worldwide with their global partners. Learn more at Alaska Air dot com. This is Live Wire. As we do each week. We have asked the Live Wire listeners a question. We, for reasons that will become apparent later on in the show, we've asked listeners, what would you like to normalize? Elena has been collecting up those responses. What do you sing? [00:24:26][54.1]

  Elena Passarello: [00:24:27] How about this one from Brett? Brett would like to normalize Pants Free Friday. I'm way ahead of you there, Brett. [00:24:34][6.5]

  Luke Burbank: [00:24:35] Pants free Friday. Is he advocating for just not having to go to work or is we talking about shorts? Kilts? [00:24:42][7.2]

  Elena Passarello: [00:24:43] Maybe you put yourself in a situation where you if you don't have to wear pants at all like a full on Donald Duck kind of situation, maybe it's that then also forces you to be at home. [00:24:54][10.6]

  Luke Burbank: [00:24:54] Right. So it's it's a way of managing your your lifestyle and your stress levels by saying this is a day I'm not wearing pants. So that alone dictates that you're not going to be like, you know, leading the corporate meeting in the corner office, closing the Jacobson account. (Yeah) [00:25:09][14.5]

  Luke Burbank: [00:25:10] All right. What's something else one of our listeners wants to normalize. [00:25:11][1.8]

  Elena Passarello: [00:25:12] Two people said the same thing with Derek. And Jay would like to normalize saying no without qualifying it. So not giving excuses, not having to explain. Just. Just saying no thanks. And then moving on. What do you think about that? [00:25:26][14.1]

  Luke Burbank: [00:25:27] I think that might be my lifetime challenge. Like, not that I'm overly sort of solicitous, but I as much of my time in therapy, has been working on saying something and having people be okay with it and being okay with them, having their feelings about it. That's the journey for me. [00:25:43][16.0]

  Elena Passarello: [00:25:44] I don't know. I mean, what's wrong with qualifying your no's, in general? I guess it's always good to know why. No, I'm sorry. I'm too swamped or. No, I'm sorry I don't drive at night anymore or whatever. Whatever the reason is. [00:25:55][11.8]

  Luke Burbank: [00:25:57] Well, that's why I have no pants Friday. I just stay home. I don't drive. I don't make any excuses to anyone. I've to explain myself. It's. It's a great scene. All right, One more thing that one of our listeners wants to normalize. [00:26:06][9.4]

  Elena Passarello: [00:26:08] Steve says, I would like to normalize cats walking on a leash, which. Yes. Now, how is bubbles doing in the old leash trading department? [00:26:17][9.0]

  Luke Burbank: [00:26:17] Well, I could never quake. This is my cat. Bubbles were talking, but I could never quite get her to walk with me on the leash. But it was a very great way to be outside and let her be outside and not be worried that she was going to get nicked by a bobcat or something. [00:26:33][15.2]

  Elena Passarello: [00:26:33] My only pandemic accomplishment was I taught my cat to walk. First we had a leash. But again, like it just she doesn't love it as much, like kind of trotting alongside you. But once I took the leash away, she does it. She does Invisible leash. We have a very it's like a set route around the neighborhood. We do not veer from it. So she knows kind of the way that we're going. And for like two years now, I take her on a little walk. [00:26:58][24.3]

  Luke Burbank: [00:27:00] Well, listen, thanks to everyone who sent in their reactions to our audience question, we'll have another one for next week's show at the end of this program. This is Live Wire Radio. Our next guest has appeared on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon and as well as CONAN and Comedy Central. As an actor, he's had roles on Maron and Inside Amy Schumer. His third comedy album, King Scorpio, is out now. Here's Sean Patton, recorded in front of a live audience at the Hult Center for the Performing Arts in Eugene, Oregon. [00:27:28][28.1]

  Robert Brantley: [00:27:36] Thank you. How are you? I don't like. Do you know that moment when you're at it, when you're at the airport and your bag goes through the machine and then and then before it rejoins you on your journey, it zips into that other line because now they're going to search it manually, Right? That moment is bad for me because my head will jump to insane places in that moment. I'm like, Is there a pistol in my carry on? Why do I want a pistol? And why is it in my carry on? Am I a bank robber? Why don't I remember robbing any banks? Oh, it's a bottle of water. I shoulda drink that water. I don't like. I don't like that moment because it messes up my timing. I get to every single airport early for one reason unlimited fast food. I allow myself unlimited fast food in airports only. Why? Because of all the calories you burn while flying. Did you know this? When your body is above 25,000 feet for an extended period of time, it begins to burn 5 to 7 times the calories to account for the shortage of oxygen at that altitude. Did you know that? That's what I tell myself. You know, who cares where the facts come from these days? As long as the source is confident, it's the era of the podcast. Like, I suppose I fly a lot, so I suppose I appreciate the TSA, but they get on my nerves because they act like every airport follows the exact same set of rules and they don't. It's different. Like I should be tsa precheck. I'm not because I've made three appointments. Missed them all terrified to make a fourth one. So. But it's like sometimes you got like three airports in a row, you take your shoes off, put them in the bin, but then you get to that one airport where you put them in the bin, and that's the day they're like. Sir, sir, sir, sir. Those go directly on the belt, sir, And I want to be like, put them on the belt, then. You got two free gloved hands. I'm disassembling my CPAP for you. So you don't think it's a nuclear war head. But you can't do that. And so I complied and I put them on the belt. But they still have to make that announcement that, ladies and gentlemen, your shoes go directly on the belt like I'm the jerk. Makes me just want to respond in that same cadence. Like then tell That to every other airport in the country. Asheville, North Carolina Regional Airport. What do you even know about security? Your TSA is a family business. North Carolina is full of those little tiny baby airports where they're TSA is like. We're tough too! We're gonna get ya! like like there's Wilmington, North Carolina. Ever heard of it? Yeah, it's got the Wilmington, North Carolina International Airport. International. Wilmington, you close at 10:30 p.m. You have two baggage claims. International? Got Turkish Airways flights landing every week. Backpacker's getting off like we will begin our tour of America in its favorite city, Wilmington home of Air Michael Jordan in five seasons Dawson's Creek. Like do. Was that a snort. Thank you. Every time and every time someone snorts, a comedian gets a wish. So I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you, Luke. I think that place meant to call itself the Wilmington International Airport. Like we're in or we fly in the nation, we're international. But Bob messed up when he was making the sign. Stuck a T in there. I don't mind, though. Looks like a cross. Reminds me of Jesus Christ. Hallelujah. He is watching over us, even when we muck something up. Normalize farting in public in 2022. It's about time. Let's all just grow up as a society, okay? It's something every human being has to do 3 to 15 times a day. Okay? It's a necessity. Okay. And I know sometimes it smells bad, and that's the point. Wakes you up, right there. You smell a terrible fart. I'm ready. I'm ready for the day. You think that's accidental? That's by design. Okay. Also, it's hilarious. It's a it's something. It's a gift that Mother Nature gave us that we have decided was not classy enough, but no. Okay. If you can't laugh at a well-timed fart, walk into a body of water, short yourself out because your simulation sucks. You know what I mean? Like, I live in. I live in New York City, okay? I live where everyone thinks they're more important than everyone else all the time. Okay? And I was riding the A train from Brooklyn to Manhattan. I like to be specific. I don't like to just say Subway. I don't get the subway. I'm a I'm a real New Yorker. I'm not joking. I mean, I was riding the subway from my apartment at three, seven, seven St Mark's Avenue, apartment two R, one one, two, three, eight. That's my Actually, I just gave you my actual address. That's interesting. All right. So I was riding it to the West fourth Street stop in Manhattan. Just so you know, now there's an afternoon train ride, and it was a tense ride. Everyone's on their phones reading about, you know, what's going on in Ukraine, reading about Elon Musk, buying Twitter. Just everyone's stressed out about the ridiculous state that is this reality. And a brave soul on board. That car unleashed a beaut. I'm talking a perfect just *raspberry sound* in every way, a perfect raspberry rim shot. It was the kind of thought you'd plug into a keyboard to make like the fart sound when you press that key. It was perfect in every way. It was a full octave. I believe it was in the key of G-shart. And you could tell that person wasn't sick at all. They were in good health. It wasn't a wet, sloppy sound. It was a dry had a nice audible walnut finish. Yeah. They're not like it was. And you can see everyone hear it. You saw everyone hear the fart. But once again, it's New York, where everyone thinks they're just the better. No, I can't. I didn't work this hard to get here to react to farts. I have followers on Tik Tok. I'm important, and we have to wear masks on the train still. And the masks hide the identity of the farter. There are little giveaways, little nuances in the face of thou who dealt it, you know, the flare of a nostril, Right? The smirk, the prideful smirk, all of that's hidden by the mask. So if the farter doesn't just actively identify themselves, you never know. So no one knew it was me. This is my point. No one had a clue. Thank you all very much. You're amazing, an amazing crowd. (Sean Patton!) [00:35:19][462.5]

  Luke Burbank: [00:35:25] That was Sean PaTton, recorded in front of a live audience at the Hult Center for Performing Arts in April. I feel really confident Elaina saying that is the most flatulent related content you will hear on public radio today. [00:35:41][16.2]

  Elena Passarello: [00:35:42] It goes straight to the fart. [00:35:43][0.9]

  Luke Burbank: [00:35:43] Unless maybe like Radiolab or somebody has a whole episode on why our bodies do that, right? But as far as standup comedy goes, I think that's that's the most you're going to hear today on your public radio station. By the way, Sean's latest album, King Scorpio, is available now. This is Live Wire, our musical guest this week. Kurt Vile is a singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, expert forklift driver. It turns out. He's also known for his solo work and for his time with the band The War on Drugs. He's also collaborated with basically everyone I love in the world John Prine, Courtney Barnett, Dinosaur Jr. Among lots of others. His ninth studio album, Watch My Moves, came out back in April. It is the creative result of two years at home with his family. This is after more than a decade of near-constant touring for Kurt. Rolling Stone calls the album a majestically mellow zone out session. Very, very excited to welcome the pride of Philadelphia, P.A. Kurt Vile to Live Wire. [00:36:44][60.6]

  Kurt Vile: [00:36:45] Thank you. [00:36:46][0.3]

  Luke Burbank: [00:36:46] We are so excited to have you here. Big, big fans of your work over the years. I'm curious that one of the tracks off this new album is Mt. Airy Hill, Way Gone. And I read somewhere that you said that that neighborhood, like moving to that neighborhood of Philadelphia for you, has been life changing. What is it about Mt. Airy that has changed your life? [00:37:06][19.7]

  Kurt Vile: [00:37:07] I mean, I moved to Mt. Airy, where I am right now after a long tour. It's just like there's I'm still in Philly, I'm still in the city, but there's trees everywhere and woods. And next thing you know, you're up in the mountains. You feel like you're all of a sudden The Last of the Mohicans or something. It's at first just disorienting and then it's completely orienting, you know? But yeah, so like, life was hectic back in 2016 and it's since gotten hectic again. But I was always imagining being able to just stay here and, like, put it all, all the rest of the world, you know, keep it away and like, just kind of work on music here because it's because it's just the best of both worlds. It's just beautiful. And I'm still in the city, but I got my wish. Not exactly the way I would have thought I'd get my wish, but maybe the only way I would get my wish just to stay home and be here like two years straight, more or less, you know? [00:38:00][52.7]

  Luke Burbank: [00:38:01] Right. You're you're touring again and you're going to be touring. Are you looking forward to that energy or are you kind of feeling sad about, like leaving, you know, your family and going back to that world of the touring musician? [00:38:11][10.2]

  Kurt Vile: [00:38:12] When I left, it was very hard and my my youngest, well, everybody was upset, but my youngest in particular, she was crying really hard when I left. And it was just for a press tour to go to Europe on the day the record comes out and things like that. And then I was going to go into hectic rehearsals with the band and it still is bittersweet. But once I was on the move again and performing, it's what I do, so it felt natural. So it's just about the balance, you know, Now I've had time to figure out I just can't be gone all the time. I can't just tour nonstop. There's got to be breaks in between, you know? And when a record comes out, sure, you're going to go. I went on a six week tour. You just got to do it. But I'm not going to go on a one year straight tour. [00:38:55][43.1]

  Luke Burbank: [00:38:58] I've seen you perform live a lot and I've listened to your albums extensively, and in the songs you seem to be the most chill person ever. You just seem totally unperturbed. Like, I always think I wish I could be as chill as Kurt Vile seems to be when he's singing. Are you really that way, or is that like a is that an act? [00:39:17][18.9]

  Kurt Vile: [00:39:18] I mean, I that's my ideal self, you know, that's where I want to be, you know? And when I'm playing music, I usually feel that way. But I definitely get really stressed out. But I'm I'm trying to get to a place where I am completely laid back. I look like when I have anything to do, I like to get up two or 3 hours before I have to do anything so I can just take it real slow and be in the zone. And maybe that's what I'm trying to do when I'm playing my music. Except in addition to that, my music is, if not always like hypnotic, you know? So unlike kind of just grooving to whatever repetitive chords I'm playing. And that probably chills me out a little bit too. [00:39:55][37.4]

  Luke Burbank: [00:39:56] I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. We are talking to the musician Kurt Vile. Going to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere because when we come back, we will hear a song from Kurt. Stay with us. Welcome back to Live Wire from PRX. All right, before we get out of here, a little preview of next week's show. We are going to be talking to Kelsey McKinney, who is the host of the very popular podcast from Defector Media. It's called Normal Gossip. And if you've not heard the show, you really you're really missing out. It's basically like really funny, juicy gossip about people that you will never meet. And it is really, really entertaining. We're also going to talk to the poet Brenda Shaughnessy about her new collection of poems. It's called Tanya. It's about female artists and mentors. And in a roundabout way, it's her trying to find her college roommate who the book is named for. And then we're going to close the show out with some music from the stunningly talented Grammy Award winner, Madison Cunningham. And as always, we're going to be looking to get your response to our listener question. Elena What are we asking listeners for next week's show? [00:42:08][131.8]

  Elena Passarello: [00:42:09] We want to know what is some gossip that only you care about is real niche gossip. [00:42:15][5.7]

  Luke Burbank: [00:42:16] If you have an answer to our listener question for next week's show, go ahead and hit us up on social media. We're at Twitter and Facebook at at Live Wire. Radio. Before the break, we were talking to Kurt Vile. Yes, that Kurt Vile. Let's pick up that conversation now and hear a song. One of the tracks off of this album, Mt. Airy Hill. Way Gone. You yodeling in the song. Is that a first for you? [00:42:44][27.7]

  Kurt Vile: [00:42:45] It's funny you mention that because yeah, it's it's yodeling and the Hank Williams Jimmie Rodgers sense not your Leahy who you know. And it's funny that you mentioned that because like right before my very first session for this record, which was a couple of years ago, at this point it was pre-pandemic it was November 2019 that Ken Burns Country music document came out. And I was so stoked because and I was a little protective because I was like, This is like all the books I've read and all this music I've studied for so long, and now the hipsters are just getting it handed to them. But somehow I don't haven't heard many people talk about it, so I. [00:43:25][40.2]

  Elena Passarello: [00:43:26] No! [00:43:26][0.0]

  Luke Burbank: [00:43:26] They're going to figure out what a wild man George Jones was. Yeah, but like, Tammy Wynette took away his car keys that he would, like, drive his riding lawnmower to the liquor store. [00:43:34][8.4]

  Kurt Vile: [00:43:35] Exactly. But anyway, Episode one Jimmie Rodgers and and I, like, have notes. I'm like, so inspired by my note to myself is literally just two words. It's: gotta yodel, you know, like and I think it was reinforced like once episode three or whatever it was the hillbilly Shakespeare, Hank Williams, you know, who I grew up on through my dad. Like, if you could pull off the yodel, you know, which I haven't fully done but best I could in that song, I pulled it off best I could in that song. [00:44:05][30.4]

  Luke Burbank: [00:44:06] Speaking of of legendary musicians, you collaborated with the great John Prine on that version of How Lucky. I'm wondering, though, like when you were working with him, are you learning stuff from him? Because, I mean, you were already an established musician in your own right. You know how to make your music, but is that a process where you actually learning things about about how to do music that you didn't have before? [00:44:26][19.8]

  Kurt Vile: [00:44:27] Of course. I mean, I'm so excited when I get to meet him. I've already learned plenty from him. I've consumed him before I met him. You know, that's why I want to meet him. So plenty of things through osmosis. But then, yeah, just hanging out with him. And it's funny, by the time he was in the studio to do the song, How Lucky With Me, which was a little bit a few days before New Year's 2020 in Nashville. He talked plenty, and in that moment, I just couldn't believe he was in the studio. So it was like I couldn't even hear him. I'm like, you know, But, you know, I could hear, but I couldn't process it. Like after he was gone, I heard what he said, you know, which is funny, a funny idea, but you know. But true. [00:45:04][37.6]

  Luke Burbank: [00:45:05] Yeah. I saw somewhere. I don't even remember where I saw this, but it was a quote from you talking about at some point of life when you were driving a forklift. Did that ever happen? Am I misremembering that? Did you have a job driving a forklift at some point? Oh, yeah. [00:45:19][13.3]

  Kurt Vile: [00:45:19] I had two jobs driving a forklift, in fact. And the first one was I moved up to Boston for a couple of years while my wife was getting well. She wasn't my wife then, but she was getting her masters. And I had my reality check basically where I got a job packing boxes or whatever, and I showed up and it was it was just my reality check. I was working with a bunch of, you know, serious ball busters with the parted style accents, you know. [00:45:46][27.1]

  Luke Burbank: [00:45:46] Strong Southie energy. [00:45:47][1.0]

  Kurt Vile: [00:45:48] Yeah, Yeah. In Everett, Massachusetts, you know, driving a forklift, unloading tractor trailers. And by the time I left there in 2002-2003, I was like, I'm never driving a forklift ever again. But I did, you know, I became a master of it. And then I worked at Philadelphia Brewing Company, and they had a forklift there and was like, Oh, I can actually drive these. And then next thing you know, I was just the best forklift driver in Philadelphia. So they would have me to use it all the time. You know, I might be exaggerating, but I feel like not, you know, not believing. But they they couldn't believe how good I was that driving a forklift at that job became like I'd be doing way worse jobs than the current your you're needed on the forklift. And then I was like, just it's almost like flying a plane, you know? It's it was fun. [00:46:31][43.3]

  Luke Burbank: [00:46:32] Are you writing songs in your head while you're driving the forklift? [00:46:34][2.5]

  Kurt Vile: [00:46:35] Yeah, I love those blue collar type of jobs because the repetitive tasks, I could always just write songs in my head. My favorite thing I wrote at the brewing company was in a black hole. I found a broken skull. Now I'm already gone, which is from my song Jesus Fever. But I don't think I was driving the forklift. I think I was completely hung over cleaning kegs. But otherwise it's still a great It was like one missing line in that song. And then I was like, Oh, that's it. Then maybe I. Maybe I threw up. [00:47:10][35.1]

  Luke Burbank: [00:47:11] That sounds like really tough. Hung over duty. Dealing with old alcohol remains in a keg. That's like, the last thing you want to be doing when you're hung over. [00:47:19][8.2]

  Kurt Vile: [00:47:20] Right. But in another way, you could just take one sip of beer, and that helps. A little hair of the dog. Hair of the dog. [00:47:27][7.1]

  Luke Burbank: [00:47:28] Yeah. Well, we're excited to hear a song off of this new album. Watch my moves. What track are we going to hear? [00:47:33][5.7]

  Kurt Vile: [00:47:34] Oh, yeah. Okay. I'm going to play you flyin like a fast train. [00:47:38][3.8]

  Luke Burbank: [00:47:39] All right. This is Kurt Vile on Live Wire. [00:47:40][1.7]

  Kurt Vile: [00:47:41] Here we go. Check now, hey

  This is yep

  Flyin' like a fast train, I don't feel a thing

  'Til when I pull into my station

  I just crash and burn, yeah

  Playing in the music room in my underwear

  Feeling fine and then my psyche crumble

  Pell-mell, stumble

  I been bamboozled

  Better watch out we got vampires lurkin'

  Flyin' like a fast train, I don't feel a thing

  'Til when I pull into my station

  I just crash and burn

  Flyin', acid flashback, flyin' saucers, black coffee

  Pink lemonade from the faucet, seein' dragons

  But they're so pretty, baby

  Come on, let's go tear up the city

  No, think we better slow it down

  Ooh

  Aah

  Flyin' like a fast train, I don't feel a thing

  'Til when I pull into my station

  I just crash and burn

  Cooped up creature of discomfort can't touch a thing

  So I take a walk 'round the block

  Then I come back and sing

  Say, what's wearing you down, kid?

  Well, try a little, lot of everything

  Flyin' like a fast train, I don't feel a thing

  'Til when I pull into my station

  I just crash and burn

  Eh

  Mmm-mmm

  Mmm-mmm

  Mmm-mmm

  Mmm-mmm

  Mmm-mmm

  Mmm-mmm, mmm

  Mmm, mm, mm

  Flyin' like a fast train, I don't feel a thing

  'Til when I pull into my station

  I just crash and burn

  Mmm-mmm

  Mmm-mmm

  [00:50:55][193.7]

  Luke Burbank: [00:50:56] Kurt Vile- right here on Live Wire song off the new album Watch My Moves. [00:51:01][4.3]

  Kurt Vile: [00:51:02] I put my lips near the phone for that. Hopefully there's not no siblings. [00:51:06][4.0]

  Luke Burbank: [00:51:09] No, that sounded great, love. [00:51:10][1.3]

  Kurt Vile: [00:51:10] Okay, cool. I rehearsed that yodel a little, but then because we talked about it, I was like, I better not be a wimp. I'd better at least try and do this. [00:51:18][7.8]

  Luke Burbank: [00:51:19] Well, again, Kurt, thank you for taking the time to come on the show. Thanks for coming on, Live Wire. Man. [00:51:23][4.2]

  Kurt Vile: [00:51:23] Yeah, Thank you so much. [00:51:24][0.9]

  Luke Burbank: [00:51:26] That was Kurt Vile right here on Live Wire. His latest album, Watch My Moves, is available now. All right. That's going to do it for this week's episode of Live Wire. A huge thanks to our guests Michelle Zauner, Sean Patton and Kurt Vile. Live Wire is brought to you in part by Alaska Airlines. [00:51:46][20.7]

  Elena Passarello: [00:51:47] Laura Hadden is our executive producer, Heather de Michelle is our executive director. Our producer and editor is Melanie Sevcenko. Molly Pettit is our technical director and mixer. And our House Sound is by D. Neil Blake. Tre Hester is our assistant editor. Our marketing and production manager is Paige Thomas. Rosa Garcia is our operations associate. Tanvi Kumar is our production fellow and Yasaminn Mehdian is our intern. Our house band is Ethan Fox Tucker, Sam Tucker, Ayal Alves and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music. [00:52:15][27.0]

  Luke Burbank: [00:52:15] Additional funding provided by the Regional Arts and Culture Council and the James F and Mary L Miller Foundation. Live Wire was created by Robin Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff. This week we'd like to thank members Rosemary King and Kristen Kibler. Portland, Oregon for more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast, head on over to Live Wire Radio Dot org. I'm Luke Burbank for Elena Passarello and the whole Live Wire crew. Thank you for listening and we will see you next week. [00:52:42][26.3]

  [00:52:56] PRX. [00:52:56][0.0]

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