Episode 548
with Kathryn Schulz, Keanon Lowe, and John Craigie
Pulitzer Prize-winning writer Kathryn Schulz (The New Yorker) unpacks her memoir Lost & Found, which weaves together the loss of her father with finding the love of her life; football coach and mentor Keanon Lowe recounts the day he intercepted a potential school shooter with a hug; and storyteller and singer-songwriter John Craigie explains having to sing around "naughty" words for public radio appearances, before performing "Laurie Rolled Me a J" from his newest album Mermaid Salt. Plus, host Luke Burbank and announcer Elena Passarello discuss the coolest (and most random) things found by our listeners.
Kathryn Schulz
Writer
Kathryn Schulz is a staff writer at The New Yorker and the author of Being Wrong: Adventures in the Margin of Error. She won a National Magazine Award and a Pulitzer Prize for “The Really Big One,” her article about seismic risk in the Pacific Northwest. Her memoir, Lost & Found, which Andrew Solomon called “a masterpiece of metaphysical insight,” grew out of “Losing Streak,” a New Yorker story that was anthologized in The Best American Essays. Her work has also appeared in The Best American Science and Nature Writing, The Best American Travel Writing, and The Best American Food Writing. Website • Twitter
Keanon Lowe
Coach and Writer
Keanon Lowe was a wide receiver for the Oregon Ducks and an NFL offensive analyst before he returned home to coach the football and track teams at Parkrose High School in Portland. Within two years, he led a football team with a 23-game losing streak to their first conference title in 53 years. But that’s not his best-known legacy at the school. On May 17, 2019, while working as a security guard, Lowe disarmed a student who’d come to school with a shotgun and a suicide note. A movie version of his heroic story is now in pre-production and will stream on Disney Plus. Lowe is now the author, with Justin Spizman, of Hometown Victory: A Coach’s Story of Football, Fate, and Coming Home. Twitter • Instagram
John Craigie
Singer-songwriter
John Craigie has been called “the lovechild of John Prine and Mitch Hedberg” (The Stranger), and it’s true that he is as much a storyteller and a humorist as he is a singer-songwriter. Known for his easy Americana style and his clever, life-affirming wit, Craigie carries on the legacy of such clear-eyed troubadours as Woody Guthrie and Ramblin’ Jack Elliott. A Portlander when he isn’t on the road, Craigie has toured with Jack Johnson and received fan mail from Chuck Norris. His most recent studio album, Mermaid Salt, is available now. Website • Youtube • Instagram
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Luke Burbank: Hey there, Elena.
Elena Passarello: Hey, Luke. How's it going?
Luke Burbank: It's going really well. Excited to play a round of "Station, Location, Identification" with you this week. Although this one is a little bit, let's just say boutique. I want to manage everyone's expectation of this, including yours.
Elena Passarello: Okay. Okay.
Luke Burbank: You take this very seriously. (I do!) This is where I quiz Elena about a place. The live wires on the radio. She's got to guess where I am talking about. I mean, your success rate with this is incredible. Again, this one is is a a beautiful but maybe slightly out of the way place where we're on the radio.
Elena Passarello: That's a hint in itself.
Luke Burbank: Well, it was a home to a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, William Allen White. His house was called Red Rocks. And it's a historical landmark there. People who visited that house include Theodore Roosevelt, Herbert Hoover and Calvin Coolidge. (Hmm.) How about this? This city is home of the National Teacher's Hall of Fame, a museum dedicated to honoring exceptional career teachers and the heritage of the teaching profession.
Elena Passarello: Is it Des Moines, Iowa?
Luke Burbank: Oh, you are in the right part of the world. Maybe had more to Jayhawk territory.
Elena Passarello: Oh, is it Topeka, Kansas?
Luke Burbank: It is in Kansas. And it's a town which their name has always made me think that they must sell a lot of stuff. Like it sounds like a store.
Elena Passarello: Wal-Mart. Kansas.
Luke Burbank: Emporia, Kansas. Where we are broadcasting on K A N H. Kansas Public Radio there in Emporia, Kansas.
Elena Passarello: I can't wait to visit.
Luke Burbank: Should we get to the radio show?
Elena Passarello: Let's do it.
Luke Burbank: All right. Take it away.
Elena Passarello: From PRX It's... LIVE WIRE! This week: writer Kathryn Schulz.
Kathryn Schulz: I think actually a lot of this book, although it is about losing and about finding and love and grief, is actually about how you kind of take the side of joy.
Elena Passarello: And football coach and author Keanon Lowe.
Keanon Lowe: In losing my best friend,I ended up saving a young man's life inside a school by following my heart.
Elena Passarello: With music from John Craigie.
John Craigie: As a kid, I was the funny guy, so people who knew me as a kid, they'll come to the show and they're like, Hey, not bad on the music, you know?
Elena Passarello: And our fabulous house band. I'm your announcer Elena Passarello and now the host of Live Wire, Luke Burbank.
Luke Burbank: Hey, thank you so much, Elena Passarello. Thanks to everyone all over the country for tuning in, including the fine folks in Emporia, Kansas. Of course, we asked Live Wire listeners a question each week. This week we ask, What's the coolest thing you've ever found? We're talking to the writer Kathryn Schulz about her really incredible book, Lost and Found. We're going to hear those listener responses coming up in just a few moments. First, though, we've got to kick things off with the best news we heard all week this. This is our little reminder at the top of the show that there is some good news happening out there in the world. Elena What is the best news that you've heard all week?
Elena Passarello: Well, I guess this is sort of in keeping with the lost and found theme because this story involves a loss of revenue.
Luke Burbank: Okay. Wow. All right. Way to make that work.
Elena Passarello: It's the best news because it's funny. A couple of weeks ago, it was just this random Thursday night in Chesterfield Township, Michigan, and six year old Mason was winding down with his dad Keith At the end of the day, and Mason every evening gets 30 minutes on his dad's phone to play an educational app. And then usually because he's six, it's kind of a struggle to get Mason to go to bed. But on this particular night, after 30 minutes, he handed the phone back and he was like, goodnight. And he ran upstairs and went to bed. And Keith, his dad was like, All right. And then the doorbell rang.
Luke Burbank: Oh, my goodness.
Elena Passarello: And then he saw another pair of headlights in the driveway and the doorbell rang again. And he finally went outside and there was close to a literal ton of GrubHub food waiting on the porch. We're talking a hundred pieces of jumbo shrimp. We're talking multiple chicken sandwiches, pizzas out the wazz, grape leaves galore from a bunch of different restaurants. (Dolmas?) Yeah, dolma's from a schwarma place. There was a Coney Island hot dog place, a pizza place.
Luke Burbank: Love the range for Mason. You know, a lot of six year olds not going for the dolmas.
Elena Passarello: So you figured it out that it was Mason who did this.
Luke Burbank: And I was able to, you know, just kind of jump maybe to the end of the story there. I don't mean to step on your ending.
Elena Passarello: Oh, no. Well, you know, once Keith figured it out, he stormed upstairs and there was Mason, and he was in his bed, and he says the covers were pulled up to his eyes and and he started his dad started to talk to him about the fact that he just charged $1,000 worth of GrubHub under his dad's account. And Mason held his hand out and said, Hold on one second, Dad, have the pepperoni pizzas come yet? But luckily, because Mason's mom, Keith's wife, has that at home bakery business, they have a bunch of fridges and freezers and ways of storing this food. They're also going to give some of the food away. And then when GrubHub found out about this little snafu, they gave the family $1,000 worth of GrubHub gift cards, which is really just enabling Mason to do this again. Yeah, as far as I'm concerned.
Luke Burbank: Well, it was an educational app for Mason. He learned that he's not supposed to do that anymore.
Elena Passarello: That's correct. Yes.
Luke Burbank: All right. From a young person doing something that was probably not totally okay to a different young person doing something that's really amazing. The best news that I saw this week, of course, it was Valentine's Day. And it's the story of a young guy named Patrick Kaufmann, who a few years ago when he was ten years old, he was volunteering at a District of Columbia food nonprofit, and they were sending out food to folks who were both children and adults who were dealing with illness. And he started making these little Valentine's cards to tuck into the meals that were going out to people. So he's ten years old and he's doing this and he makes like 30 of these Valentine's cards just to brighten the day of someone who's having this food delivered. And so the next year, he decides to try to see if he can up the ante a little bit and he starts getting students at his school to make some of these Valentine's cards and they get 300 of them made these all handmade Valentine's cards, and they're tucking them into meals that are going out to folks who are dealing with cancer, HIV, AIDS and other serious illnesses. So then it's last year and, you know, Patrick is on a roll with this stuff. He actually goes around and gets several District of Columbia schools to put together 3000 Valentine's Day cards for people who might not otherwise get a Valentine's Day card.
Elena Passarello: Oh, my gosh.
Luke Burbank: Which brings us, Elena, to what he did this year.
Elena Passarello: Oh, my gosh. There's more.
Luke Burbank: But wait, there's more. He organized the creation and delivery of 16,000 handwritten, handmade, one of a kind Valentine's Day cards to go out to people in D.C., Maryland and Virginia. He got 62 schools involved with making these cards again, just to brighten the day of folks who are dealing with illness or food insecurity. People who may be elderly just wouldn't maybe be getting a Valentine's card. 16,000 people in that area are going to get a handmade Valentine's card thanks to the work of Patrick and his friends at all these schools.
Elena Passarello: What grade is this kid in?
Luke Burbank: He is now 14. Which raises the question what are any of us doing with our lives?
Elena Passarello: I know.
Luke Burbank: I thought this was really cute. One of Patrick's cohort in this whole thing, a kid named Max Rapoport. Max is ten years old. He's in fifth grade. And The Washington Post caught up with him as he was making one of these Valentine's cards. And he was taping large Purple Hearts to the front of the card, a light pink heart in the middle of the card. And then he wrote a poem. Max Rapoport, age ten, wrote a Valentine's poem to somebody that he has never met. "Roses are red, violets are blue. We think you are amazing. You just have to know it, too." I mean, it didn't get any more adorable than that. So Max and Patrick and all of those schoolchildren and the adults that are helping them out, making 16,000 people have a really great Valentine's Day this year. That is the best news that I heard all week. All right. Let's welcome our first guest on over to the program. She's a staff writer for The New Yorker, where she won a Pulitzer Prize. Her work has also appeared in the Best American Travel writing, the Best American Food writing as well. Her latest book is Lost and Found. It's a memoir. It talks about losing her father at about the same time that she was finding the love of her life. Here is our chat with Kathryn Schulz, recorded in front of a live audience at the Hult Center for the Performing Arts in Eugene, Oregon. Kathryn, welcome to the show.
Kathryn Schulz: Thank you.
Luke Burbank: This book is first of all, it is absolutely incredible. I can't say enough about it. And it has so many different elements to it. It's in a way sort of a two parter. It talks about the loss of your father. It also talks about you finding the love of your life sort of woven together at the end. I'm curious when you thought that this life experience is something that could make a good book.
Kathryn Schulz: It was the love, as it so often is. I had written a little bit about my father's death not long after I lost him. And I wrote about it in the context of losing all these other things keys, cell phones, elections. It was a bad year. But yeah, I didn't really want to spend two, three, four years of my life just thinking about grief. But there was this moment when I realized, ah, well, there's this mirror image story I could tell that would kind of explore the category of discovery. But but that would have the emotional heart of of a love story at the core of it. And that, to me, started seeming awfully interesting.
Luke Burbank: You also really go into a bit of a deep dive on just the science of losing things, starting with the fact that a lot of us don't really fully understand the origin of the word lost.
Kathryn Schulz: Yeah, I was quite surprised by that. You know, when we say something like, I lost my father, I had just always assumed that that was frankly a euphemism, like saying, oh, my father passed or whatever, but it felt really right to me. And I don't normally like euphemisms. So I got kind of interested in the word, and it turned out I was completely wrong, actually. Originally, the very earliest use of loss when it showed up in the English language had that sense of being separated from someone you love or being bereft in a sense, in fact, that that word lost is related to the lorn in forlorn. So it's it's always had this note of real grief and sorrow inside it.
Luke Burbank: Is it true that the average person loses nine items a day? That's in this book. And I was shocked by that.
Kathryn Schulz: It's quite shocking. Yes. According to like insurance companies and places that bother to gather information like this, I like to think that at least two members of my family have skewed the average so drastically in the direction of loss that the rest of us only lose like two or three things a day. But apparently it's true.
Luke Burbank: You write in this book about the sort of two theories as to why we lose things. And one is kind of scientific and the other is, I guess you would say, Freudian in some way. What are the, what are the theories on that?
Kathryn Schulz: Yeah, I mean, the short version is I think they're both kind of unsatisfying. But the the scientific one is, you know, our our minds are fallible, as you might imagine. And we fail to either encode a memory of where we left something or we encode it just fine and we fail to retrieve the memory. And so, lo and behold, like, who knows where my cell phone is? The psychological one is actually, frankly, much more interesting, but I'm personally inclined to think it's bunk. That's the theory that, you know, you only lose something that you just want out of your life.
Luke Burbank: That's the Freudian idea.
Kathryn Schulz: That's the Freudian idea. Like I lost my cell phone because I'm tormented by modern technology and I or I had there's some text message in it I can't bear to read. And so, you know, it goes missing. And the minute I resolve my deep emotional issues about cell phones, it will be materialized in my life. That's happened for me. Never.
Luke Burbank: This is live wire from PRX. We are talking to writer Kathryn Schulz about her latest book, Lost and Found. When we come back, we're going to find out how Kathryn managed having a deadline for a Pulitzer Prize winning article for The New Yorker and also going on a first date with her future wife. This all happened on the same day. We're going to hear about it coming up on Live Wire.
Unidentified: Welcome back to Live Wire, coming to you this week from the Hult Center here in Eugene, Oregon.
Luke Burbank: I'm Luke Burbank, here with Elena Passarello. We are talking with New Yorker writer Kathryn Schulz about her latest book, Lost and Found. This book focuses the first part of the book on your father, who was just an absolutely brilliant man, but also hopeless with losing things with just whatever it would be keys, passports, you name it. Is there anything to that idea of the kind of absentminded genius or that our brains are only capable of being good at, like knowing about the law or baseball in his case, but not remembering where our stuff is?
Kathryn Schulz: Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm always reluctant to give too much credence to stereotypes, but it is incredible the degree to which my father, despite not actually being a professor, was truly an absent minded professor. And I did sometimes feel like, well, you know, what's rattling around in your brain, you know, seven languages that you're fluent in all of, you know, you spoke English more beautifully than I ever could hope to. And that was his last language, you know? Right. All of his kind of legal studies. He was a he was a lawyer. The entire works of, you know, the Western canon, basically. And I thought maybe there's just not room to remember where your other shoe is. It could happen.
Luke Burbank: Yeah. Your dad's story is really incredible. He was born in Tel Aviv. Then you write in the book, and I had to reread this a couple of times because I wanted to make sure I was getting it right. You write in one of the more unlikely trajectories in the history of modern Judaism, they left what was about to be the state of Israel and moved to wait for it, Hult Center: Germany.
Kathryn Schulz: I mean, for history buffs out there in February of 1948.
Luke Burbank: What I was I had no idea that that was however microscopic, that that was a migration that was happening.
Kathryn Schulz: It's quite unusual. I mean, there were certainly still Jews in Germany, you know, some who had survived. And then as it turns out, there were quite a lot of refugee camps in Germany. So some people went just to try to reunite with families there. But no, no, not my family. They weren't trying to reunite. My grandfather was frankly, trying to make a buck, which in fairness, they were desperately poor. And he had three children by then and wanted to feed them. And he had heard, as it turns out correctly, that it was possible to make a pretty decent living on the black market in postwar Germany. So some of my father's earliest memories are, you know, like of being in his dad's sidecar on his motorcycle, basically, like being a decoy. He was sitting there this very cute little round cheeked, adorable boy on top of a stack of like, American cigarettes and like, a camera. That's that's what brought them to Germany.
Luke Burbank: One of the things that comes through in this book is your dad's incredibly kind of ebullient personality and how he just kind of lit up every room he was in. And considering the trauma of his childhood, have have you sort of tried to figure out how it is that he as a person was able to, you know, push past that or push it far enough into the rearview mirror that he could live, you know, the life that you saw him living?
Kathryn Schulz: I certainly have thought about it a lot. And in some ways, I think it's actually kind of the it's very close to the heart of this book in the sense that I think actually a lot of this book, although it is about losing and about finding and love and grief, is actually about how you kind of take the side of joy, even in the face of pain and suffering. And the thing I admired about my dad, it's not like he just was sort of glib and a Pollyanna optimist. He just he he somehow managed to have this, as you say, ebullient, joyful spirit while still looking squarely in the face that the various woes of the world, how he was like that is a real mystery. I mean, that's kind of the mystery, right? Like how why are we the way we are? Why are some people able to find joy in those moments? And I, I wrote toward that. But I if I had an answer, they'd be paying me more money to be in a much larger auditorium next year.
Luke Burbank: Listen, next year we're getting over to the real the biggie, I promise. That's our that's our goal. The we're talking to Kathryn Schulz about her book Lost and Found. The found part of this book is you finding your now wife. A couple of things about that. One, you describe your first date with her that some mutual friends had set you up and she was passing through where you were living and I think the Hudson Valley. And you go out and you have this spectacular afternoon together and you're completely bewitched. And then at the end, you say that you were surprised that she wanted to go on another date because you didn't realize or know if she was gay. What did you think was going on on this date?
Kathryn Schulz: Really impressed, you're the first person to ask me that question. I know. What was I thinking, right? Like weird, rare, crucial failure of my gaydar. What did I think was going on? I think maybe there was not sufficient introspection on my part in that moment. I mean, I knew what was happening in my head, which was like, this woman is unbelievably brilliant and incredibly interesting and also strikingly beautiful. And gosh, that shirt looks nice on her and what pretty long fingers. So, it's, it's not that I wasn't having a series of thoughts, but I don't know. I mean, it's so funny since you've already blown my covers, the author, the earthquake piece. The truth is, I was on deadline for that piece during that lunch.
Luke Burbank: No....the, the
Kathryn Schulz: True fact revealed live for the first time. (Wow.)
Luke Burbank: The now famous in the Northwest earthquake piece.
Elena Passarello: You had a deadline for that piece when you met the love of your life?
Kathryn Schulz: I was actually two weeks behind deadline. So in my mind, when I went off to that lunch, you know, I didn't know her from Adam. And it wasn't meant to be a setup. Actually. It was just here's this friend of a friend driving through town. I'll be nice. I'll go have lunch. But when I set off for that lunch, I was like 45 minutes tops, you know? Yes, I got to eat something, but. So fine, I'll meet the stranger. And then, of course, 4 hours later, there we still are. But it seemed to say I was not you know, it's not on my game that day.
Luke Burbank: There were two seismic stories unfolding in your life at that time. Can I get a shrimp shot? No. Okay. I don't deserve one for that. The way that you write about your your wife is like it gives, like, Neruda a run for his money. Like, it is really just one of the most beautiful descriptions of two people falling in love and how much a person can love another person and the reasons why they can love that person. I mean, it's just really gorgeous. I'm curious, though, what it was like for you to write that about the person you are currently in a relationship with and for her to read it later, because this is a, you know, a hit book and it's very personal, the stuff you're talking about. And like, had you told her all of that stuff before you wrote it? Like, I like this about you. And with that one time I saw you in the sunlight doing this like was what was her, what was the impact on her of reading this?
Kathryn Schulz: Well, you know, I must say, she's a very patient person. You know, the truth is there was no indication when we met or frankly, when we married that I was going to go off and write a memoir. It's not really my thing. I give you, you know, seismology. That's kind of my thing. But but then I went and wrote it. And for me, it was completely delightful, to tell you the truth. Nothing turns out to be more fun to write than a love story. And, you know, I would every day I would sit and kind of work on whatever section I was working on of that love part of the book. And then at night, I would take it up to to bed and kind of read it to her like a bedtime story. And this. It was delightful, honestly. And, you know, to her great credit, she edited me the way she always edits me, which is to say, like, that's going on too long. But she never once said, could you please just not, you know.
Luke Burbank: Would you ever have like a not great day, maybe, you know, a disagreement about something? And you'd be thinking, I got to rewrite some of this stuff.
Kathryn Schulz: I have to say, I haven't had any second thoughts about the love section, and I hope never to do so.
Luke Burbank: One thing that I am curious about is that you only used your wife's first initial for the book:C. I'm curious why you made that decision.
Kathryn Schulz: Well, certainly not to keep a secret. My wife is the amazing Casey Cep, who is on this very show. Some years ago.
Luke Burbank: Who wrote: Furious Hours, the incredible book about Harper Lee. Yes, that's right. That's that's see in this book is Casey Cep. But I'm curious why you chose to be a little bit, you know, nonspecific.
Kathryn Schulz: You know, the truth is part of why I shouted out my wife's patience is she actually is a more private person than I am. And I think it was she did sort of raise her eyebrows when I embarked on this project, but raised them quite privately. And I felt when I sat down, the truth is, when I very first tried to do it, I actually the first scene I wrote, there was no name at all. There was just pronouns. And then it turns out to be grammatically, completely unsustainable to do that for the next six paragraphs. So I gave up on that, but I somehow felt like, well, you know, it felt it felt right in the way some choices sometimes do in writing. Like, okay, you can have this much of her and it's true and it's it's honest and she would sign off on it as well. But there's all the rest, too, and she gets to keep that. And I get to keep that and her family gets to keep that. So it was a little tiny nod to, you know, memoirs to some extent are always acts of withholding as much as they're acts of divulging. And I on her behalf and mine withheld a little bit.
Luke Burbank: It seems like a big theme of this book is that the loss that we feel like, particularly when we lose people, is because we found them, you know, and that that's the kind of essential tension of of life, is that that feeling that you can really only feel the loss of somebody who you found and who made the impact that you know, your father made in your life. Where do you sort of land on that towards the end of the book, or what are you hoping to kind of say about that?
Kathryn Schulz: I suppose that it's worth it. You know, I think that we cannot ward off all loss. Some of them are just baked into the terms of our existence. And frankly, the hardest ones are baked into the terms of our existence. I hate to break it to you here on this lovely and actually mostly comic and lighthearted night, but you guys are you're going to lose it all. No, you're going to lose your loved ones. You're you know, you yourselves are going to die. And I guess for me, I do feel that there's something useful about that knowledge, which is that the fact that we're going to lose everything does, I think, remind us of how precious it is and remind us to cherish it while we have it and to tend to it and and and pay attention to it. You know, these are all actually very cliched lessons, but somehow they're impossible to retain. So I became the 450,000,000,000th writer to try to write about them.
Luke Burbank: But but in a really incredible way in this book, I can't recommend it highly enough. It's lost and found. Kathryn Schulz, Everyone. That was Kathryn Schulz. Right here on Live Wire. We recorded that at the Hult Center for the Performing Arts in Eugene, Oregon. Katherine's latest book, Lost and Found, is available now. Live Wire is brought to you in part by Alaska Airlines. Alaska Airlines offers the most nonstop from the West Coast, including destinations like Hawaii, Palm Springs and San Francisco, and as a member of the OneWorld alliance. Alaska Airlines can connect you to more than 1000 destinations worldwide with their global partners. Learn more at Alaska Air dot com. This is Live Wire. Of course, each week we ask our listeners a question. Based on Kathryn Schultz's book, Lost and Found. We asked listeners, what is the coolest thing you've ever found? Elena has been collecting up those responses. What do you see?
Elena Passarello: I love this one from Tina. Tina says, When I was at the thrift store, I found a sweater that I had given away years ago. It wasn't a common sweater at the time, and it had a hole in the exact spot my old sweater did. I gave the sweater away in Wisconsin, but found it at a thrift store in Chicago, which, I mean, they're not too far away from each other, depending on where in Wisconsin you're talking about. So I think that's plausible. That's amazing.
Luke Burbank: Wow. Now, does the listener mention if they then bought the sweater? (No.) Oh, you did a boomerang back into their life or do they just kind of wave at it right in the second hand store like, Hello, fellow traveler. Good to see you again. We'll check in in about 15 years. What's something else cool that somebody found?
Elena Passarello: I like this one from Eric. My great aunt ran off with the tall man in the circus. And among my family's mementos, I found a charm bracelet that he gave her from the World's Fair.
Luke Burbank: Oh, my gosh. Like the tall man. Meaning the guy on the stilts?
Elena Passarello: I'm assuming, yeah. You know, the thing that it makes me think about is no one ever just, you know, walks at a regular pace with someone from the circus. One always must run off.
Luke Burbank: Absolutely. It's the only.
Elena Passarello: The only.
Luke Burbank: The only speed.
Elena Passarello: The only gait that...
Luke Burbank: You can join the circus and nobody strolls off with the circus or saunters off with the circus. Yeah. What's something else cool that one of our listeners found.
Elena Passarello: Short and sweet from Angela. Angela found, quote, 20 bucks at a park at night when I was really broke.
Luke Burbank: Oh, yeah. That'll get you out of a couple of jams. And also, that feels like the kind of thing where 20 bucks is an amount of money that I think you can keep and not be too worried. Right. That it's been totally and completely devastating to someone like you. Find a bag full of money or if you find an envelope. Yeah. Scott, You know, maybe it says Bailey Savings and loan on it. It's got to but Christmas time.
Elena Passarello: Scrooge McDuck dollar signs.
Luke Burbank: All right. One more cool thing that one of our listeners found before we move on.
Elena Passarello: Oh, this is. This is great. From Heather. Heather says, My girls and I were out dog walking and we came across two bikes that were exactly their sizes and they were practically new and they were leaning against a tree with a free sign on them. We've been on the hunt for used bikes because they'd both outgrown theirs.
Luke Burbank: That is serendipity. Yeah. So glad, by the way, that we got the detail about a sign that said free, because otherwise Heather is just describing theft like that.
Elena Passarello: Larceny.
Luke Burbank: We found these two bikes that were perfect. They were just in someone's garage, but the door was open and we wheeled them right out of there. Hey, thanks to everyone who sent in a response to our question. We got a question for next week's show, which we will reveal in just a few minutes. In the meantime, just a reminder, this is Live Wire Radio. We've got a very interesting interview that we want to play. Next is with Keanon Lowe. Now, Keanon Lowe's story is that he was a big college football star at the University of Oregon and he eventually ended up coaching in Oregon at Park Rose High in Portland, coaching the football team when something very intense and very dangerous happened. It was May 17th, 2019. Keenan writes about this in his book. It's called Hometown Victory. And before we get started, just to note that this conversation does mention suicidal ideation and also gun violence. So please listen with care. This is Keanon Lowe, recorded in front of a live audience at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon.
Luke Burbank: Hello, Keanon. (Hello.)
Luke Burbank: Welcome to the show. Now, you were a star athlete, so you probably did a lot of interviews. But what is it like doing, like, book interviews versus "I caught a touchdown in the Orange Bowl" interviews.
Keanon Lowe: Yeah. Usually when you do an athletic interview, it's it's about the game that just got played and no game is the same. But at this point, I've done the same interview about 18 times in the last two days.
Luke Burbank: Do you want to put some pads and like eye black on just so it gets you back in that comfortable space?
Keanon Lowe: Those days are gone, man, those days are gone for me. So I'm. I'm excited to be an author now.
Luke Burbank: Yeah. Well, congratulations. The book is a really good read. And the book is a great read. And of course, the crux of it is this incident happened at Park Rose, which we'll talk about. But really the book also goes through your life and experiences and, um, well, for instance, the thing that brought you from working for the San Francisco Forty-Niners, you're like on you know, a track to maybe someday be an NFL head coach or something. And then something happened that ultimately led you to come back to the Portland area. What happened?
Keanon Lowe: Yeah, I was on a good path. Fresh out of college. I got a job in the NFL, work for the Philadelphia Eagles and then worked for the San Francisco Forty Niners, so, I was fresh out of college on a nice career path, and then I get a call from home and it's one of my friends. And. And he tells me our our best friend, Taylor Martinek, passed away of an opioid overdose and fentanyl ended up taking his life. So in that process, I, um, you know, life happened fast, you know, And I came home to mourn and and be with my friends and family. And then when I was home, everything started to make a little bit more sense being around the people I loved, the career and the money and and that path that I was on didn't really matter so much because I just lost my best friend. So I came home and I decided I was going to move home to to continue to to search for whatever I was missing for. And in that process, I found a school that was on an 0 and 23 game losing streak that hadn't won a game in three years at Park Rose High School, a bunch of tough kids in a tough part of town. And, you know, they were a school, a team without a coach, and I was a coach without a team. So it kind of it kind of worked out that way. And I was blessed to find them and, you know, make an impact there.
Luke Burbank: How do you, how do you turn a team around that has lost that many games in a row where a lot of the kids hadn't played football before? And then you ultimately, like in two seasons, right, got them to their first ever playoff win at the state level. How do you actually get these kids to perform? And don't say give it 110% because that would, save that for the sports interview.
Keanon Lowe: That is a good recipe, though.
Luke Burbank: No, but I mean, I just don't understand how you teach kids, how you coach kids up and get them like running, catching, throwing that much better in two seasons. How did you do that?
Keanon Lowe: I think it comes down to trust and just me being the adult in the situation, the coach and the mentor to those young men in that in that program. And, you know, I showed them that I was willing to commit to them and fight their fights with them, that I was willing to show up day in and day out with them before I ever asked anything of them. And then once I started to show them that I was there for them and willing to fight with them, they decided to trust me. And once they started trusting me and I started sharing some of my story of why I came back home, stories about my friends and stories about me playing football and those things, you know, that trust continued to build. And and once you have trust with with especially with a young person, once you have trust with them, then they'll do anything for you. You know, they'll run through a wall for you. And, you know, as a coach, I tried to commit as much as I could to them and they returned that favor.
Luke Burbank: Now, you were the football coach. You were also the track coach, and then you were one of the security guards at Park Rose, which you write in the book, was, to some degree, just because you liked being kind of at ground level with a lot of those students seeing him in the halls, both your players and just other students at the school. I'm curious, what is a regular day like as a security guard at a public high school? And like, what are the calls you get called out on typically?
Keanon Lowe: Every day was different. I'll say that. Some of the calls were calls to break up fights and escort kids to a and b places. It was a job that was a very thankless job. But but once I started to really do it and once I started to live it and be with those kids day in and day out from 7 a.m. to 4 p.m., you know, I really started to see what they go through on a daily basis, and I really started to see the struggles. Some of those kids were really fighting every single day.
Luke Burbank: Well, and that obviously became extremely relevant on this day in May, back in 2019, they asked that you would go to a classroom and escort a kid out of the classroom. Did you know why you were going to be taking this kid somewhere else?
Keanon Lowe: No, unfortunately, I didn't know. But like I said, that was just kind of the job. It was, "Security can you please go do this job for us real quick and bring the student here?" And that was pretty much all I knew. So it was a it was pretty surreal when I got there.
Luke Burbank: Because you get to the class and he's actually not in the classroom this particular student. And you're asking around, is this guy here? And they say no. And then you turn around and he comes into the classroom and basically pulls a shotgun out. What goes through your mind?
Keanon Lowe: Yeah, I'm in the classroom for about probably 30 seconds asking where the kid is. And 30 seconds later, I'm probably four feet from the door just on the inside of it. And that door opens up and there's a young man with a big coat and he pulls out a shotgun right in the doorway, probably about four, four or five feet away from me. So it was a it was like a movie. Everything seemed to go slow motion. And I was able to think very clearly for whatever reason, and I was able to analyze it really quick and see the look in his eyes, first and foremost. And I could tell it was a young man that needed help, a young man going through a mental health crisis. And, you know, kids are obviously screaming and and it was a really scary situation. But for for whatever reason, my instincts told me to stay calm. My instincts told me to go lunge for the gun. And once I grabbed the gun, we kind of wrestled around the classroom and spilled into the hallway. And that's kind of where that viral video starts there, where where I'm able to take the gun from him and hand it off to a teacher. And then ultimately, I decided to give him a hug.
Luke Burbank: When you were when you were grappling with that gun. I mean, I think it's important to clarify that this student was attempting to harm themselves and they pointed the gun at themselves. And something I didn't realize until I read this book that was remarkable was they pulled the trigger and it clicked.
Keanon Lowe: Yeah, it was a scary situation.
Luke Burbank: Like, what are the chances of that shotgun jamming in that particular way?
Keanon Lowe: You know, one one in a million. You know, there was some divine intervention, I would like to think. Yeah. And when you look at just the whole story in itself, and even just my whole journey, I, you know, what are the chances I'm in that exact spot at that exact moment for that kid going through a mental health crisis that decides to do that on that exact day. And then the only reason I ultimately how I ended up at that school is because I lost my best friend. You know, I so I lost and losing my best friend and him losing his life. I ended up saving a young man's life inside of school by following my heart. So it was really special and and it was really exciting to put that in the words. Yeah.
Elena Passarello: I heard this story, you know, three years ago, and I was so excited when I learned that you had written a book. And it just makes me so curious, having told the story on TV and for people and for reporters for so many years. How did you feel about the opportunity to put it into words and how did you approach it? Because it must be so codified by the time you get this book opportunity.
Keanon Lowe: Yeah, it was really cool to figure out that structure and be creative in that way. And you know, that moment, a lot of people have seen that and I've gotten thousands of messages to the last few years saying thank you and whatnot, because they've seen that video. But, you know, I like to think that there's a whole bunch more that led up to that video, you know, and that was exciting to be able to put that in the words, you know, whether it was stuff I've learned when I was a kid growing up with an awesome single mother who's here tonight.
Luke Burbank: Hey! Shout out.
Keanon Lowe: And and learning from awesome coaches that I've played for and got to coach under in the NFL. And then the experience I had with with my best friend and and you know I've just been through so much in life you know I had kids that were that were homeless that I coach that went to Park Rose, I had kids that had anger issues that went to went to bed hungry at that school. And and so so my story and the story of what happened in that hallway is just is so much more that led up to that moment where all that led up to my instincts telling me to just take care of this young man, hug this young man and tell him that you care about him. And you know what? When you tell someone you care about them, you don't know how how far that can go for that person, whether you know him or not.
Luke Burbank: Yeah, totally. What is it like for you to have this probably be maybe the defining kind of moment of your life because you've been talking about how this was a journey for you of becoming Keanon Lowe, who could be in that moment present enough to do this thing. But that isn't your whole life that this is this was 2 minutes of your life. That is now the thing that a lot of people know you for. What's that like for you to have a quick moment, be what you are known for?
Keanon Lowe: Yeah, it's pretty cool. But before that I was known for being a good football player at Jesuit High School, and then I was known for being a good football player at the University of Oregon. Then I was known for being a young coach then, you know, so. So it so it just changes, you know, this journey of life is, you know, you only got one of them, you know. And for my life I've decided to do good things for for people that whether I know them or not, I'm going to continue to to treat people kindly. And and I figured out in my life, the nicer I am the people and the the more kind I am to people. All of a sudden people are really nice to me too, and it feels good. So it's a pretty simple recipe that, you know, I think everyone can can solve that, you know?
Luke Burbank: Yeah, well. It's it's been a real honor getting to talk to you. Keenan Thanks again for all you've done. Keanon Lowe, everyone right here on Live Wire. That was Keanon Lowe, recorded in front of a live crowd at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon. Keenan's book, Hometown Victory A Coach's Story of Football, Fate and Coming Home, is available now. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. We've got to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. When we come back, we're going to hear a chat and also hear some music from musician John Craigie. And we'll find out what bad word he is allowed to say on public radio. I don't know what that is. I guess we're all going to find out together in a minute here on Live Wire. Welcome back to Live Wire from PRX. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. Okay, before we get to our musical guest this week, a little preview of next week's show. We are going to be talking to the very funny comedian Hari Kondabolu about this Netflix show that he co-hosts with Megan Stalter. It's called Snack Versus Chef. It features 12 professional chefs competing to recreate iconic snack foods. Which, it turns out, is way harder than you think it would be. Plus, we've got music from Margo Cilker. In the midst of of the sort of height of the pandemic, I was driving around here in Portland and I heard a Margo Cilker song on the radio. And I had that moment where I pulled my car over and I texted our executive producer, Laura Hadden, and I said, "Can we please track down Margo Cilker and bring her on Live Wire?" And look at this. Dreams come true. It's going to be on the show next week. And we've also got a listener question that we would love to get your response to Elena. What are we asking the listeners for next week's show?
Elena Passarello: What snack takes you back?
Luke Burbank: Tell you what. Snacks can be very nostalgic, right?
Elena Passarello: Oh, yeah. Gushers, Come on.
Luke Burbank: If you've got a snack that takes you back, let us know about it by way of Twitter or Facebook, where at Live Wire Radio pretty much everywhere. All right. Our musical guest this week has been called the lovechild of John Prine and Mitch Hedberg. Those are two quality individuals. He's played with Jack Johnson. He's gotten fan mail from Chuck Norris. He describes his style as humorous stories mixed with serious folk. His latest studio album, Mermaid Salt, which is really good. Really enjoyed this record. It's out now. Take a listen to this. It's some chatting and some music from John Craigie, recorded in front of a live audience at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon. Hi, John. Welcome back to Live Wire.
John Craigie: Thank you. It's good to be here.
Luke Burbank: I love this new album is just a really great listen. And it struck me that you really are a really talented musician and I think there could be a potential for a little bit of that to be lost, because you're also a really funny storyteller, very folksy. But it's not like you're a guy telling a story and you just kind of like dinking around on the guitar. Like there's a real musicality to what you do. Do you feel like every once in a while you want to reaffirm that with folks?
John Craigie: I think that just is coming slower. You know, I think, uh, as a kid I was a funny guy, so people who knew me as a kid, they'll come to the show and they're like, "Hey, not bad on the music, you know."
Luke Burbank: You didnt even have to look at the guitar when you were playing. You just know all those chords.
John Craigie: That's been a slower grow for me, you know, I think with I'm still learning a lot with music, so I like those kind of compliments because I feel that I feel that way with each album. I feel like I learn a new chord or something.
Luke Burbank: And so you're going back out on tour and you're going to play the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville with Mary Chapin Carpenter. Yeah. Oh. That's pretty cool, right? Is that like on your list of places that, you know, you might dream to play someday?
John Craigie: Yeah, I think it's the only thing on. I don't. That's not a list I keep. You know, uh, my goals are usually more, like, more obscure, but I think if I had a venue dream list, it would just be that one. So I'm excited to. I got to pick a new one now, you know, after that.
Luke Burbank: What song are we going to hear?
John Craigie: I want to do this song. It's called "Laurie rolled me a J", thank you. So I got an email this morning from my manager, Phil, and he said, Uh Live Wire had some thoughts on the song you were going to play. And I said, Oh, cool. And he said, They're worried about the lyrics. Then he sent me the quote and the quote was, "Hey, Phil, the drug stuff is great." That made me happy. And. But, "he says a few bad words in the song. So could he not?" And I was. I said, No problem. I know how radio is. Uh, I've done this before. Not just this, but other things. Sometimes they catch me off guard, which is hard. One time I was at the show, I was about to get on stage and the guy was like, John, listen, uh, this is going to be broadcast on the radio, so could you not say any bad words? And I was like, Oh, man. I wanted to. And he said, Which ones? And I said, Most of them. So he thought for a second and he was like, "You know what? I'll give you ass." I was like, Excuse me. He said the word, I'll give it to you, because he said, Ass is in the Bible. I said, I don't think I use it in the biblical way. He said, But you want more than ass, right? And I said, Yeah. So he said, Well, here's what we could do. He's like, Do you have like a song where all your bad words are in one song? Because you can play that first and then we'll just start recording afterwards. And I was like, No. I feel like that would be way more disturbing. Right. Like, if you came to my show, my first song was just blankety blank, blank, blank, blank. And then I never cussed again. Let's do this song now. This is because I love I respect radio. I love Live Wire. We're doing the Live Wire version.
Luke Burbank: John Craigie here on Live Wire.
John Craigie: I got my wings clipped. I got my Trump checks, supposed to last me through the apocalypse. I spent it all on some live. Did as you tell him. And Mike Pence. I don't give a it about the burning bush Noah's Ark or two of every animal. Is this the new flood? Is this the new plague? Is this the rapture or just the first wave? My lungs are clean, at least today. I feel I'm up longer. I can't sleep with Emma anymore. She got too many chickens in her back yard. Took the urban farming thing a little too far. They wake me up each and every hour, she'll kiss her housemate. It's more convenient. Well, with the lock down, well with the cold, it's too much drama for me to play. I stay at home longer, Laurie roll me a J. Went to the protest, it got crazy, you lost your mask running away. Your friends got paranoid. Come join my scene. Make love for two weeks. We says it's quarantine. Don't call me sugar if you won't taste it. This summer heat has got sweat and no BS. We watched the sun set from a cage. Front row seats, Laurie rolled us a J. This girl named Cedar. I had to get away. She was funny as hell, but she was too New Age. She'd do that. Wim Hof, don't take no hot showers. But I'm a bad boy. I need them hot showers, she got a crystal for every disease. Secure the COVID she said it's 5G, She won't get the vaccine because of the track and chip how they can track me. I did track me on my couch, track me in my bed, track me texting you, chat me left on read. Track me yard, puffin' my life away. Don't like to smoke alone, Laurie rolled me a J. I got my wings cleared. I got my Trump check supposed to last me through the apocalypse.
Luke Burbank: That was John Craigie right here on Live Wire. His latest album, Mermaid Salt, is available now. That's going to do it for this week's episode of Live Wire. A huge thanks to our guests Kathryn Schulz, Keanon Lowe and John Craigie. Live Wire is brought to you in part by Alaska Airlines. This episode is dedicated to the memory of our former Live Wire performer and our friend Andrew Harris.
Elena Passarello: Laura Hadden is our executive producer. Heather de Michele is our executive director. Our producer and editor is Melanie Sevcenko. Our assistant editor is Trey Hester. Our marketing manager is Paige Thomas. Our production fellow is Tanvi Kumar, and Yasamin Madeon is our intern. Our house band is Ethan Fox Tucker, Sam Tucker, Ayal Alves and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music. Molly Pettit is our technical director and mixer, and Our House Sound is by D. Neil Blake.
Luke Burbank: Additional funding provided by the Oregon Arts Commission, a state agency funded by the State of Oregon and the National Endowment for the Arts. Live Wire was created by Robin Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff. This week we'd like to thank members Judi Clark of Portland, Oregon, and Timm Fredrickson of Spokane, Washington. More information about the show or how you can listen to our podcast head on over to Live Wire Radio dot org. I'm Luke Burbank for Elena Passarello and the whole Live Wire crew. Thank you for listening and we will see you next week.
PRX.
