Episode 510
with Laci Mosley, Marlee Matlin, and Kishi Bashi
Host Luke Burbank and announcer Elena Passarello reveal some scams our listeners have fallen for; comedian and podcaster Laci Mosley (A Black Lady Sketch Show, Scam Goddess) lends her expertise to real-life "sketchy" situations; actor Marlee Matlin discusses her critically-acclaimed new film CODA and why she's advocating for deaf actors to play Deaf roles; and multi-instrumentalist Kishi Bashi performs "Wait for Springtime" from his latest EP Emigrant.
Laci Mosley
Actress, Comedian, and “Scam Goddess”
Laci Mosley is an actress, comedian, and podcaster from Dallas, Texas. She performs improv comedy at UCB Los Angeles and is best known for hosting the podcast Scam Goddess, which is dedicated to fraud and those who practice it. As the Scam Goddess, Mosley keeps listeners up to date on current rackets, digs deep into the latest scams, and breaks down historic hoodwinks alongside guest comedians, including Ron Funches, Nicole Byer, and Conan O’Brien. Mosley is featured on the second season of A Black Lady Sketch Show, an HBO comedy series performed by a core cast of Black women, and plays Harper on the iCarly revival series. Instagram · Twitter
Marlee Matlin
Actor
Marlee Matlin knows her way around Hollywood. She remains the youngest Academy Award winner for Best Actress in a Leading Role for her work in Children of a Lesser God. Her credits include notable roles on Reasonable Doubts, Seinfeld, The West Wing, Law and Order: SVU, and Family Guy. She is the producer of Feeling Through, the first film to star a DeafBlind actor, and an Oscar nominee for Best Live Action Short Film at the 2021 Academy Awards. Her most recent film, CODA, follows the story of Ruby, the only hearing person in her family and an aspiring singer. CODA received the Academy Award for Best Picture in 2022. Website • Twitter
Kishi Bashi
Multi-Instrumentalist Singer-Songwriter
Kishi Bashi is the pseudonym of singer, multi-instrumentalist, and songwriter Kaoru Ishibashi. He is a founding member of the New York electronic rock outfit Jupiter One and, as a renowned violinist, has recorded and toured internationally with artists including Regina Spektor, Sondre Lerche, and the indie rock band Of Montreal. In 2012, Bashi released his debut album 151a to immediate critical acclaim, and his fourth and most recent album, Omoiyari, was released in 2019. He is currently co-directing a feature length documentary of the same name about the incarceration of Japanese Americans during World War II. Over the last year, he has arranged and recorded a companion to Omoiyari called Emigrant EP, which serves as a continuation of the album and a time capsule of life in 2020. Emigrant EP was released digitally in April 2021, with physical copies available starting May 21st. Listen • Twitter
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Luke Burbank: Hey, Elena!
Elena Passarello: Hello, Luke.
Luke Burbank: Do you want to play a little "Station Location Identification Examination"?
Elena Passarello: Very much so.
Luke Burbank: OK, this is where I'm going to tell Elena about a place in the world where Live Wire is on the radio, we'll try to figure out where I'm talking about. This city is home to an annual Earth Day celebration called The Procession of the Species, which features a parade of costumes, non-motorized floats and puppets with animal and element themes. There are some rules, though: no live pets, no motorized vehicles, candy or words for this Earth Day get-together.
Elena Passarello: Uh...
Luke Burbank: I've got a follow-up hint, but if I give it to you, I feel like you're going to know it right away.
Elena Passarello: I want it! Give me the follow-up. Make me feel better.
Luke Burbank: It's sort of considered to be the birthplace of the Riot Grrrl feminist punk rock movement from the 90s.
Elena Passarello: Olympia, Washington.
[bell rings]
Luke Burbank: That's exactly right!
Elena Passarello: [Laughs] Sleater-Kinney
Luke Burbank: If you're ever driving on I-5, and you see the Sleater-Kinney exit...
Elena Passarello: That's right [laughs]
Luke Burbank: You can't not think about that band. That's where we are on the radio on the AM frequency of KUOW, KUOW AM in Olympia, Washington. Should we get to our radio show?
Elena Passarello: Let's do it.
Luke Burbank: All right. Take it away.
Elena Passarello: [Music plays] From PRX, it's Live Wire! This week, comedian and podcaster Laci Mosley:
Laci Mosley: We all know after 2020, Daddy Government went out for a pack of cigarettes and never came back. We were like, "Daddy! Help us!"
Elena Passarello: And actor Marlee Matlin:
Marlee Matlin (through interpreter): I've seen too many times when hearing actors play Deaf characters as if they were costumes you could put on and take off at the end of the day.
Elena Passarello: With music from Kishi Bashi. I'm your announcer, Elena Passarello, and now the host of Live Wire, Luke Burbank!
Luke Burbank: Hey, thank you so much, Elena Passarello. [Music ends.] Thank you everyone tuning in all over the country, including Olympia, Washington, home of, I think, one of the great college mascots in America.
Elena Passarello: What's that?
Luke Burbank: Evergreen State Geoducks
Elena Passarello: [Laughs] The geoduck! Not a very active mascot.
Luke Burbank: No, it's a mascot that just kind of wants to mostly be left alone, which I can kinda get down with.
Elena Passarello: Yeah and be underground until somebody with a PVC pipe comes, and...
Luke Burbank: That's right. We have a great show in store for y'all this week. We are asking an audience question: What's the worst scam you ever fell for? This is related to Laci Mosley's podcast, Scam Goddess. We've gotten a bunch of responses to that question. We're going to read those coming up in the show. First, though, we've got to kick things off with The Best News We Heard All Week. [Music plays] This is our little reminder at the top of the show that there is some good news happening out there in the world. Elena, what's the best news you heard all week? [Music ends.]
Elena Passarello: Well, it's a new trend, a hot new trend [laughs].
Luke Burbank: Alright.
Elena Passarello: That's unfortunately a reaction to a gross new trend, which is the trend of banning books.
Luke Burbank: Oh yeah.
Elena Passarello: The American Library Association estimates about 800 challenges last year to schools, universities, and libraries for their materials, and they think that's probably a really low report number. It might be as much as twice that. And we've all heard the stories about like Toni Morrison novels being banned, and Maus, and whatever. Well, the cool thing is that a lot of communities and professional organizations are starting banned book clubs, and this CNN report that I read talks about an eighth-grader in Kutztown, Pennsylvania, who noticed a lot of the banned books that were being announced were books that she'd already read and loved, and it really changed her perspective because they gave her insights into people who were very different from herself because these books that are banned often depict the experiences of marginalized people.
Luke Burbank: Mm-hmm.
Elena Passarello: So she started the Banned Book Club at her local indie bookstore Firefly Books. They've been reading classic and contemporary titles. They read Animal Farm. There are a lot of banned book clubs that are doing things like this, like the Common Ground Teen Center in Washington, Pennsylvania, who just read Fahrenheit 451.
Luke Burbank: Mm.
Elena Passarello: This is actually a tradition that's been going on for a long time. In Tacoma, Washington, there's a place called King's Books that's been doing this for a decade, meeting and talking about books that have been banned for one reason or another. I think their most recent title that they read was The Color Purple. But here's something cool that we all can kind of join in on. There is an institution called Reclamation Ventures that just started this website called bannedbooksbookclub.com. You can subscribe to it and every month they'll send you a banned book or you can donate to it and they're going to put banned books in the hands of students and young readers everywhere. Or you can use it to see links to activist resources, and they send you great books like In the Dream House by Carmen Maria Machado, Beloved by Toni Morrison, Maus by Art Spiegelman, The 1619 Project. So at least there's a little bit of that good coming out.
Luke Burbank: Yeah, I mean, if you look at any kind of, you know, historical footage, it's never seen as a good thing when people are throwing the books into a giant bonfire at any point in history.
Elena Passarello: No.
Luke Burbank: When you see that footage, they're never like, "and that was a great time for that country."
Elena Passarello: It was the dawn of a new enlightened age. No, that never happens.
Luke Burbank: Also, there's nothing that teenagers like more than being rebellious. So this is harnessing the rebellious instincts of a teenager in a really positive direction of like, "Hey, they don't want you to read this book, so we should definitely check it out." [Elena laughs.] The Best News that I saw this week is coming by way of Egypt, where a guy named Omar Hegazy—he's 31 years old—he broke two Guinness World Records recently for swimming underwater while holding his breath. What's kind of notable about it is that Omar Hegazy, he only has one leg. He is an amputee.
Elena Passarello: Whoa!
Luke Burbank: He was in a motorcycle crash back in 2015. He was hit by a truck and injured quite badly, and unfortunately, they had to amputate one of his legs. And he says that he was just feeling pretty despondent, as one might, as he was convalescing because he really had to relearn how to do all kinds of really simple life tasks now that he's only going to have one leg. And then he was cruising around on the internet and he saw this other guy, an amputee from Lebanon, who had broken the world record for the longest static wall sit. [Elena laughs.] So that's that's where you like sit against the wall.
Elena Passarello: Yeah.
Luke Burbank: Anybody who played basketball remembers when the coach would be like, head over and do wall sits. That was—.
Elena Passarello: Oh yeah.
Luke Burbank: —you know, a special ring of hell. Well, our guy, Omar, he saw this other guy from Lebanon who had set this world record, somebody who was fellow amputee. He also saw this guy in Kuwait who uses a wheelchair who had broken the record for fastest 10 kilometer scuba dive.
Elena Passarello: Whoa...
Luke Burbank: And it really changed his perspective. He started to realize like, OK, my body is different now than it was before the accident, but it doesn't mean I can't still do amazing things. And so there's this footage of him swimming in this pool for like, well, he did it with and without a fin. So without a fin, he went about 185 feet, which is like half, over half of a football field. And then, with a finish, went 251 feet. This is on one breath with one leg.
Elena Passarello: One fin.
Luke Burbank: And it was like strong memories to me of the most fun thing you can do when you're a child, which is holding your breath underwater contests at the Motel 6 pool.
Elena Passarello: Oh yeah.
Luke Burbank: With your siblings. [Elena laughs.] But it's just really incredible to see what this guy was able to do and has been able to do, even though, you know, he's had to sort of learn how to live his life differently. But I thought it was pretty inspirational. I also do not want to run into him at the Motel 6 pool, if you want to get in a contest.
Elena Passarello: Yeah, he'll smoke you.
Luke Burbank: [Laughs.] Think how many times he could do a Motel 6 pool at that rate, he could, it'd be like 40 times across and back.
Elena Passarello: Yeah. He could, he could, like, if you took all the Motel 6 pools and laid them end to end, he could swim through them all.
Luke Burbank: He'd just be just going through there with his swim fins just set in all kinds of records. People exceeding maybe even their own expectations for themselves... that's the Best News that I've heard all week. [Music plays.]
Luke Burbank: All right. Let's welcome our first guest on over to the show. You know, when you meet someone and you just kind of immediately want to be their new best friend?
Elena Passarello: Mm-hmm.
Luke Burbank: You're just like, I love this person's vibe, that is, I think, how you're going to feel about our next guest. At least that's certainly how I felt when we got to meet her. She's the host of the podcast Scam Goddess. She's also in the second season of HBO's A Black Lady Sketch Show. And she's in the reboot of the iconic kid's TV show iCarly, which I'm like a few years too old to have totally, like, have it be in my wheelhouse, but everybody, like, my daughter's age tells me that iCarly was everything when they were growing up. Take a listen to this. It's our conversation with Laci recorded last April.
Laci Mosley: Hi, I'm so happy to be here!
Luke Burbank: Right? We are so happy to have you here. We're big fans, both of the sketch show and also your podcast, which I want to talk about in a minute. First, though, I want to find out like what life was like for you as a kid growing up in Dallas. Were you into comedy? Were you and your friends, like, making sketches and recording them on your phones or whatever? Like, what was that like for you?
Laci Mosley: Oh yes, I've always been into comedy. I told my mother when I was five that I wanted to be an actor and she got me some head shots, and honey, I was at the mall trying to get involved in every scam, OK? John Robert Powers, Barbizon...
Elena Passarello: Barbizon?
Laci Mosley: You be on the radio, Little Laci was going to be there, honey, OK? I was like, "we heard this on the radio, we here to become a star-a tomorrow." So...
Luke Burbank: Did you book anything? L,ike, were you in some local, like, Dallas stuff?
Laci Mosley: Well, my mom actually didn't want me to be a professional actor at five. She kind of was like, "yeah...", and then she was like, "Girl, I don't want you to be out here on drugs, child, so we gonna, we gonna to let you wait." And, and, I, look, there's plenty of well-adjusted people—actors who were child actors and child stars. But there's also a lot who, you know, went through the dark sides of Hollywood. So I appreciated my mom wanting to protect me and also knowing that I was the type of kid who was probably going to fall for it [Luke & Elena laugh]. She knew, she knew what kind of child she raised, so she was like, Laci, we're going to let you get older and more mature. So I just mostly took classes and would film fun videos with my friends that were absolutely ridiculous and I did theater my entire life. So, yeah.
Luke Burbank: Then you got to L.A. eventually, and I know you were part of Upright Citizens Brigade, which is one of the big like improv places in L.A. One of the things I've always wondered about that—everyone talks about, like, classes. I'm taking classes at UCB. What are you learning in those classes about how to be a better improviser, performer, how to get funnier? Like, what's the curriculum of those classes?
Laci Mosley: Um, it's it's a lot of math, which, like, you're not actually doing physical math, but it's learning the math of comedy, you know, and how to use what you have to the best of your abilities. And so, you know, a lot of times we say comedy comes in threes, you know, like, that's how you hit a joke or you know, what, or specificity, like, that's the kind, you know what I mean? Like there's a difference between being like I was following you for three miles or I was following you in my Ford Pinto with a diaper on for three miles, right?
Luke Burbank: Right.
Laci Mosley: You know, so just learning like how to use what you have to the best of your abilities, which is why I love UCB because they didn't try to make me something different. They were just like, What do you have? What can you bring to the table? And like, how can you use that? So yeah, it was fun.
Luke Burbank: What was it like for you getting A Black Lady Sketch Show? I mean, did you audition? Did they come see you at UCB? What was that like?
Laci Mosley: So it was crazy, actually, because I saw the first season and I was so excited to watch all these funny black women, but I was also like, "Wait a minute! I didn't even get an audition for this, like, hold on!" [makes funny noise; Luke and Elena laugh.] So, you know, immediately I was texting my agents, like, "if this comes back around, if they get a second season, like, I have to be in the room like, please, I don't care what we got to do. You know, tell him, I'm Gabrielle Union and then when I show up, I just won't be. Like we'll just scam them, you know what I mean? Like whatever we got to do." So I was really excited when it came back around and I auditioned and the audition was crazy. It was like I had to play like five characters talking to themselves. And so I was just like throwing my braids over my face and like doing accent—it was like crazy. So they call me and they tell me that they wanted me for the job, but unfortunately, because I was shooting this other show, Florida Girls, at the time, there was a conflict, and so I couldn't do it. And I was crushed and then cut to the pandemic [laughter] which we were right about to go shoot Florida Girls and Tom Hanks got the 'Rona and the NBA shut down, and I was like, "ooh well, child, pack it up."
Luke Burbank: That was a crazy day.
Laci Mosley: It was an insane day! [laughter]
Luke Burbank: This is the Live Wire House Party. We're talking to Laci Mosley. She's one of the regulars on a Black Lady Sketch Show. She also has a great podcast called The Scam Goddess Podcast. In season two of a Black Lady Sketch Show, you are in a particular sketch where the premise is, you're twerking and a guy is getting very... bored with the twerking, he's getting sleepy... I don't want to give away the reveal, but let's just say he's not super interested and you keep upping your twerk game. I have so many questions about this. One: did you actually know all of these different dance moves and versions of twerking that you're breaking out? And also physically, what was it like to do that sketch? Because just the part that made it onto screen looks exhausting and I'm sure there was like five extra hours of twerking that didn't get in there.
Laci Mosley: Probably around more 14 hours. I lost four pounds on set that day just because it was just twerking all day and some of the moves I knew already and there was a choreographer. She does like Beyonce's choreography. She's like so fantastic and talented, but she was teaching me new moves like in between setups and stuff, so there was a lot going on. [laughter] And you auditioned for the sketches, so I had to audition for the twerk sketch on Zoom, so I was literally like doing back bends on my couch and like trying to twerk and like, somehow fit it in the camera. So, yeah, you know, shout out to people who do Only Fans, I don't know how you all manage to twerk into like a camera this small... Like I was really hitting the angles. But yeah, that's how it happened. And I ended up doing a lot of physical stuff in this season and realized, like, physical comedy is a big part of what I do, and it was really fun.
Luke Burbank: This is Live Wire from PRX. We are listening to a conversation we had with Lacey Mosley from Scam Goddess and a Black Lady Sketch Show. We got to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere because we will be right back.
Luke Burbank: Welcome back to Live Wire! I'm your host, Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. We are listening to our conversation with comedian and podcaster Laci Mosley recorded last year. Check it out!
Luke Burbank: Before the break, we were talking about a sketch that you're in in this new season, Laci, where your character is twerking and it's super funny, it's super physical for you, but then at the end of the sketch, there's a kind of a series of visual jokes that also then have a message to them. You know, there's a commentary about Black women's needs and how white feminism has let down Black women historically. And I was curious about the way that you, when making this show, how you guys sort of balance being funny with also really trying to say stuff that's real and meaningful.
Laci Mosley: Yeah, I mean, one of the great things about a Black Lady Sketch Show is that it is written in all Black woman writers room where they do have the insight and they don't have to then explain certain things to people who may not be familiar with them. There's so much freedom and creativity there. And I think that it's wonderful that Robin Thede has created so many fun opportunities that maybe do educate or maybe do say something poignant at the end, but in a way that's, you know, palatable. And we always say it's funny because it's true. So it's like when you see these things and they're brought to you in this manner, you're like, Oh, this is hilarious. But it's also hilarious because histo rically and contextually, it's sad and true. But what you won't see on a Black Lady Sketch Show is making fun of trauma, which I really have appreciated. I mean, with everything that's happening with Black Lives Matter and just like, you know, Black people in policing in general, like, you're never going to see jokes like that where it's at the expense of Black folks and their pain. But you know, they try to make jokes that are uplifting things that do need to change and where we can all laugh, but then be like, "Oh, well, you know, that's actually a really good point." So I love that.
Laci Mosley: Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about The Scam Goddess Podcast. How did this thing get started? Like, were you just somebody who had been scammed, were fascinated with scams? Like, how did you end up hosting this show?
Laci Mosley: Yeah, the whole podcast is a scam. [laughter] Yeah, it's a comedy show. And at the time, when I was pitching a comedy podcast kind of around, everyone was like, "Whoa, we're inundated with comedy podcasts. And you know, you're not really famous, so like, we don't really get the draw, you know?" And then so with true crime and stuff, I realized that there's so much true crime and not enough true con, which I think is more fun because you listen to an episode and there's not going to be like some nice lady getting murdered, you know, it's going to be people losing money. You know, sometimes there's something dark, but we try to stay away from the darkness, but you're going to have a good time. You can laugh at these criminals and you know, their fumbles and everything about it's been a scam like we were Spotify's pick of the year in the business category in 2020. [laughter] Yeah, right? And everyone was like "business?!", and I was like, "Yeah, the business of robbery. What y'all talking about, OK?" Like robbers were like one of the few people who didn't get a stimulus package and they needed a stimy. How are you going to rob people when they're at home? You know, let's think about that... think about them!
Luke Burbank: One of the first industries to go down was mugging... nobody was out and about. I'm not trying to like, you know, nominate myself to be on your show, but let me tell you, my mom, Susie Burbank wrote the book on scams. You name it, coloring contests! In our town, there was like a grocery store that would like you could color like a paper bag at Thanksgiving and they'd give you like 10 bucks. She had my sisters color in like 50 paper bags, taking them to every single grocery store in our town. It was a whole sweatshop. I mean, she would like go into the dairy department and find the milk that was going to expire and then like, go make an offer... Like my mom was working it from every single angle, which is part of why I love your show because you, you really hear people on their grind. You hear about, you know, people trying to hustle and, you know, figure it out.
Laci Mosley: Oh, we stan Ms. Burbank. OK?
Luke Burbank: Susie B!
Laci Mosley: And that's one thing that we adore is that, for the most part, we're punching up. Like a lot of the scams we talk about are, you know, capitalism just in general, like how people are finding their way through this system that is very oppressive to people, especially when you aren't born with money or opportunities that other people have. So I love to see a good scam on Daddy Government because we all know after 2020, Daddy Government went out for a pack of cigarettes and never came back. [laughter] We were like "Daddy! Help us! We've been giving you money all this time and... nothing?"
Luke Burbank: OK, because you're a featured player on a Black Lady Sketch Show and because you're also an expert on all things sketchy as the host of the podcast Scam Goddess... Laci, we wanted to get your expert opinion on a little game that we're calling "What's Sketchier?".
Music: [Music hook from "O.P.P." by Naughty by Nature plays]
Laci Mosley: Oooh... yess.
Luke Burbank: I mean, there's nothing sketchier than O.P.P... which if you know, you know. Let's just leave that there for public radio. Basically, how this is going to work. Elena has got a series of of scenarios and different kinds of things, and we would like Laci Mosley, your expert opinion on what is a sketchier. OK?
Laci Mosley: Yes.
Luke Burbank: All right, Elena. Take it away.
Elena Passarello: OK. #1. Which is sketchier: Someone trying to sell you a Gucci bag in a parking lot or an Uber driver who doesn't follow the directions that come up on the app?
Laci Mosley: Uber driver! One hundred percent! If I'm selling you, you know, parking lot purses... You know what you're getting! It's pretty straightforward. If the Gucci came out of my trunk and I'm looking side to side, you know, as we make this transaction, like, we all know what's happening. But if an Uber driver is over here tricking me and going out of his way and taking all these different turns, now you're taking something professional where I had an expectation on what was going to happen and you're scamming me. So, you know, I like an upfront scam, you know?
Luke Burbank: Yeah, I don't want to make it awkward, but I want to say "no offense. I promise you the computer knows how to get there better than you do, sir." Right? Like, "Oh no, this is faster." I'm like, "No, there's a lot of a lot of software behind this route that it wants us to take. Okay, I'm kind of going with the software on this."
Laci Mosley: Exactly like Waze has come up with so many amazing things. I love Waze, but also sometimes Waze is a little too much. It'll be like driving down this alleyway and through this lady's backyard... Karen is cool with it! And you're going to save 30 seconds on your trip. [laughter]
Elena Passarello: So, OK, number two, which is sketchier essential oils or Gwyneth's Goop empire?
Laci Mosley: Ooh, ooh, that's hard... This candle smells like my... you know. [laughter] I'm going to have to go with Goop. Sorry Gwynnie... love you, sis, but at least with the essential oils... yeah, OK, maybe I may have bought like sixty five packs to sell to my friends and family and now I'm just I got oil for the rest of my life. Sure. But at least if you rub some peppermint oil under your nose, aren't you refreshed? You know what I mean? So at least you're still getting something. And with Goop, I don't know what their ties to some sketchy things that are happening right now. I'm just going to say, sorry, Gwynnie girl. I still love you, still you.
Elena Passarello: OK. Which is sketchier the Cash App or Craigslist?
Laci Mosley: Oh, that's hard, because we all know Cash App is the app for crime. It's sketchy over there and that's why we love it. Money comes quick. Basically, Western Union on your phone if you need something just real sketchy to send money. But then Craigslist... Craigslist is an OG of the fraud and scam department, you know what I mean? Like, you know how many times I've walked down a dark alley and I was like, "Maybe I'll get murdered, or maybe I'll have a great job opportunity. They said meet 'em on this alley." You know what I mean? Yeah, this lady just ran past me screaming, but you know, I'm still see if I can get the job. You know, I'm gonna have to go with Craigslist. It's an old timey, ancient scam, and I love it. I love that for Craigslist.
Luke Burbank: Lacy, thank you so much for coming on the Live Wire House Party. We really appreciate it.
Laci Mosley: Thank you for having me. This is so much fun. Yes!
Luke Burbank: That was Laci Mosley right here on Live Wire. You can listen to Laci's podcast Scam Goddess wherever you get your podcasts and also check her out in iCarly and also season two of a Black Lady Sketch Show.
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Luke Burbank: This is Live Wire. As we like to do each week, we ask the Live Wire audience a question. This week in honor of Laci Mosley's amazing podcast Scam Goddess, we asked the listeners "What's the worst scam you ever fell for?" And Elena has been collecting those responses. What are people telling us?
Elena Passarello: Here's one from Liz. Liz says "My dad told my sister and me that if you walk on the grass when it snows, it will die. And I didn't find out that that wasn't true until I was in my 30s when I asked my son to stay off the grass because it would die and my husband looked over and just laughed at me." [laughter]
Luke Burbank: I wonder why that listeners' dad wanted them not walking on the grass in the snow. He must have believed it himself!
Elena Passarello: Maybe... buried poop?
Luke Burbank: That's, you know, an issue. Certainly. I mean, my dad's big thing was get that Slip 'N Slide off of there or you're killing the grass, which 100 percent happened. What's something else that one of our listeners fell for that they now consider to be a scam?
Elena Passarello: Here's one from Beth. Beth lives in College Station, Texas, and says, "I was driving to Austin, about 90 minutes west, when I heard a voice on the radio say they were cutting down all the cedar trees within a 10 mile radius of Austin. There are a lot of cedar allergies there." I used to live in Austin, and she's right. There's this thing called cedar fever that everyone, basically everyone who's around anyone at any point just points at them and says "cedar fever" whenever they sneeze in the spring, it's bad. But anyway, so Beth says, "I believed this radio thing because everywhere I look from my car window was covered in cedar trees. I tried to imagine what they would do with all that cedar, how they would cut it down, but it turns out it was an April Fool's joke."
Luke Burbank: Oh, I had friends growing up... my parents, friends, really and they convinced their 16 year old son that they had gotten this beautiful truck on April 1st. They had fake paperwork drawn up. I think they may have even gotten like, borrowed the truck from someone they knew and put it in the driveway. And then the payoff was, you didn't get the truck, Trevor!
Elena Passarello: Oh, poor Trevor. And then what life of crime did he go on to lead?
Luke Burbank: He hasn't been right since I and tell you that. [laughter] What's another scam that somebody fell for?
Elena Passarello: This is a scam that I probably would fall for. I don't even know what it means! It's an anonymous one. Maybe I sent it in, but the the scam is calling one of those 1-800 "How's my driving?" bumper stickers to report a bad driver.
Luke Burbank: I have never called one of those.
Elena Passarello: Is it a scam? So neither of us know.
Luke Burbank: My assumption has always been those phone numbers go to some place, you know, that keeps track of if the drivers for a certain trucking company or delivery service are doing a good job, I assumed that their boss answers. Yeah, maybe not!
Elena Passarello: Or God! Like he's just keeping track of, you know, like, that's one point off get you into The Good Place if you're driving crappy.
Luke Burbank: Yeah, we got to move "how's my driving?" into the major religions of the world. All right, thank you to everyone who sent in responses to our listener question. We've got another one for next week's show, which we will pose at the end of this episode, so stick around for that.
Luke Burbank: In the meantime, let's welcome our next guest on over to the show. She is the youngest Academy Award winner for Best Actress in a leading role for her work in Children of a Lesser God. She's also made tons of memorable performances on TV shows like Seinfeld, Picket Fences, The Practice, Law and Order SVU, and as if all that weren't enough. Her latest film, CODA, just won the Oscar for Best Picture. We are so excited for her and the entire team of people who put CODA together, so we thought this would be a good time to revisit our conversation with Marlee Matlin recorded last September.
Luke Burbank: Marlee, welcome to Live Wire for our radio listeners who can't see what we're doing, we're also being joined by Jack Jason, who is Marlee's longtime business partner and interpreter. Marlee, congrats on all the love this film is getting!
Marlee Matlin (through interpreter): Thank you so much. Thank you. Hello, everyone who's listening, except for the Deaf people who can't hear me anyway. [laughter] No, I appreciate the opportunity to speak with all of you. It's really exciting and it's an exciting time.
Luke Burbank: I thought it was interesting that your character, who is the mother in a family where the mother and father are Deaf and one of their children is Deaf. I don't know how to put this delicately... She's not the greatest mom... Like let's just say this: she's complicated. Was that part of the attraction to the role?
Marlee Matlin (through interpreter): Well, I mean, I'm a mom of four and I know how difficult it is. Jackie as myself as mothers, we have strong maternal instincts if you want to put it that way. So it's just that we approach in a different way. I mean, she had a different experience than I did growing up. Jackie did. I wouldn't say she was not a good mom, she's just a different kind of mom in that she left her home, which was all hearing. And now she married a Deaf man and so she probably found the hearing world a little bit daunting for her, and she chose not to integrate herself into the community because of the way she was raised. She was always praised for her beauty, and she eventually became a beauty queen, and that's how she felt she got from her family, who, you know, didn't quite know how to communicate with a girl who was Deaf. So because of that, she probably made sure when she became a mom that she would have a different approach and she hoped that it would be with communication in the languages she's comfortable with because she married a Deaf man. She had a Deaf son, but then what happened was she got a hearing daughter. And so listen, she loves her daughter. She doesn't love her daughter any differently or less than her son, but her perspective is probably different as a result of the fact that she's hearing.
Luke Burbank: There's a really poignant moment in the film where your character sort of levels with her daughter, who's hearing and says, "I was sort of hoping you would be Deaf so that we could have a closer relationship" or what she thought might be a closer relationship. As a person who was Deaf in a hearing family, your parents all learned ASL and your family really did what they could to sort of support you and be able to have a fluid communication.
Marlee Matlin (through interpreter): I wouldn't say that they were fluent in ASL. I became fluent at lip reading and I then matched that up with their ASL as best they could. I mean, it would have been nice if they were more fluent, but naturally, I didn't even think that way when I was growing up. I didn't have the sense of why don't you sign better, as well as I do? I didn't have that sense from them. I just was a kid who was fiercely independent and I was extremely curious and I was always asking questions as opposed to wallowing in self-doubt. I mean, I was busy exploring. I was busy making friends. I was out there doing so many things that my parents and my two brothers gave me a foundation that I could be independent like that.
Luke Burbank: Did I hear right that you approached Henry Winkler when you were like 12... and that's the Fonz, for people who forgot, and told him that you wanted to be an actor and then years later, you end up being an Oscar-winning actor and you're like crashing his house with his wife?
Marlee Matlin (through interpreter): That's absolutely right. So what happened was as he came to visit us in Chicago, he was there for a charity event and I happened to be working and performing at The Center on Deafness. That's where I sort of... It's where I began my acting career. And they invited Henry and his wife, Stacey, to watch us perform at the center. And naturally, I knew who he was because I loved Happy Days. And, you know, I had an agenda. I didn't want to miss the opportunity to talk to him and ask him if it was OK to be an actor in Hollywood just like him, which I did. As he was about to give me advice someone took Henry aside and said, "Henry, don't encourage Marlee too much, because you know how tough it is for hearing people in this industry. I can't imagine what it be like for Deaf people and she might get disappointed." But Henry, you know, he just nodded his head and he turned around and looked me in the eye and said, "Marlee, sweetheart, you can be whatever you want to be so long as you set your heart to it and follow your dreams and don't let anyone tell you otherwise." And I listened to that and eight and a half years later, I was standing on a stage with an Oscar.
Elena Passarello: Cool!
Marlee Matlin (through interpreter): But, as it so happened, after I got the Oscar, there were critics who said, for example, Rex Reed, who said that... just the day after I won the Oscar, that my win the night before was the result of a pity vote. And he said that I was a Deaf actor playing a Deaf role, so how was that considered acting or even the best? And I think if I had understood what he was trying to say at the time, I probably would have said something in response. So... What do you mean? So does that mean that when hearing actors play hearing roles, they don't deserve Oscars too? What are you trying to say? I mean, it was hard to understand where to go with my career, and I was just 21. So I flew out to California and when he opened the door, I held up my Oscar, I was so shy. I just turned my head and said, "Here, here's my Oscar." [laughter] And they have the biggest smiles on their face. And then Henry knew what had been said in the press and he said the same thing again "you know, Marlee, you can be whatever you want to be as long as you believe in yourself, but you're not finished, not by a long shot." And so Stacey and Henry said, "You know what? Why don't you stay for the weekend, for a couple of days, and we can think it over? And then two years later, Stacey was telling me to clean my room because I was the guest that never left. [laughter] I mean, I had a pool house. The rent was free. And Stacey made the best brisket west of Chicago, and their support was critical in my career. It was it was very much needed, very much appreciated. And to this day, after knowing them for 40 years, I still thank them.
Luke Burbank: Wow. This is Live Wire Radio. We are talking to Marlee Matlin about her career and also her new film, CODA. It's sort of a well-known thing about this film, Marlee, that after you were cast, there had been a plan to cast hearing actors in the roles of your husband and son who are Deaf in the film and you were not having that. Were you really ready to walk away from the film if they were going to go forward with that plan?
Marlee Matlin (through interpreter): Well, I mean, I've had the opportunity to be in this business for 35 years and not to denigrate or, you know, say, something bad about the industry... I think they're on a learning curve and whether they, you know, whether I just left alone or decided to walk away, I think when it came to casting, I guess as I got older, I have had enough. I've seen too many times when hearing actors play Deaf characters as if they were costumes you could put on and take off at the end of the day. I just said I was tired of it. I really was. So I felt comfortable in saying and making noise because I didn't want to do this alone. And again, not to say something bad about actors who played disability roles in the past, like Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man and many others. I mean, I said, I'm a fan of all their work, so there's no offense here, but I think it's time that we move on from that. And if we want to tell good stories and we want to have authentic actors playing the roles who live with disability, who live with being Deaf, you get a more authentic portrayal. You get a more realistic portrayal. I mean, I'm not going to play a different race. I'm not going to play a different disability. We're talking about a whole different ballgame. And if you can find a bigger name that's well known and can play Frank, well then go for it. I'm not going to be part of it. I had to say, "stop." You know, I love this film. I love the script. I love Sian Heder, the director, and her vision, her work. And I really love the character of Jackie. And I can't even imagine playing this role opposite somebody who is hearing playing Deaf. That just wouldn't work. It just wouldn't work for the film and it wouldn't work for the Deaf community. Wouldn't work for everybody involved. You wouldn't have gotten a realistic portrayal and I said I'd walk away. And I wasn't angry. It was just time for me to make my point and speak out. And I was nervous. Admittedly, I was nervous because I could have been easily, you know, dismissed. But yet I knew deep down that people would eventually understand, they would get it, and they would understand what the point I was trying to make, why it was so critical to have this role played authentically.
Luke Burbank: Your daughter Ruby in the film is an amazing singer, which your character has sort of a hard time relating to because of being Deaf. I'm curious, though... Marlee Matlin, in real life, what is your relationship with music? I know you like Billy Joel and you're on Dancing With the Stars, so it sounds like you're pretty into music.
Marlee Matlin (through interpreter): I love music. I love music. I have two older brothers who were raised in the 60s and they were true hippies and they really got into music. They introduced me to Billy Joel and to James Taylor, and I learned to hear with my eyes and I learned the lyrics and I listened with my hearing aids and I learned the songs. And I enjoy music. I enjoy music in my own way, if that makes sense. And yeah, there are people out there who are Deaf who really love music, some even are singers. There's a guy by the name of Sean Forbes. He's a Deaf rapper. You should look him up. He's based in Detroit, and there are plenty of other people who are Deaf and like music. And Mandy Harvey, who is Deaf, who was on America's Got Talent. She's Deaf, and she sings so... Being on Dancing With the Stars was just a challenge for me and my kids wanted me to be on the show when they asked. I mean, I didn't really know much about the show when I was first asked or my kids said, "Mom, you've got to do the show." But yeah, when I go to my kids' school concerts and they have recitals or plays or musicals, I'll go with my husband and my husband's hearing and I'll watch and I sit there and I try to enjoy it as best as I can in my own way. And I'll check out the other parents who are taking pictures and are smiling and applauding. But it's just different than the way hearing people look or see concerts clearly.
Luke Burbank: In getting ready to talk to you, Marlee, I watched a lot of your work and I read a lot of interviews with you, and it struck me that there is no time when you are ever getting to take a break from talking about deafness. Is that exhausting at some point? I mean, would you like, is there a different topic that you want to talk about, like the Chicago Bears or something?
Marlee Matlin (through interpreter): The more we talk about it, the more that people will listen and learn and just spread the message. So why not? It's how you make things happen. It's how you make things work. It's, I mean, it's about collaboration. That's the key. I can't be angry. I can't not want to talk about it because there's not enough people out there who are still not familiar with Deaf culture. If people weren't familiar, I mean, clearly I... I just have to keep talking. If they were all familiar, then I wouldn't have to say anything anymore about it. But I just find that it's important to talk about the barriers, walk around the barriers. That's what Henry taught me.
Luke Burbank: This film is just getting so much love critically and of course, at Sundance. And I mean, I don't know, I guess, could you win another Oscar just to stick it to Rex Reed?
Marlee Matlin (through interpreter): Well, you said it... "Stick it." I mean, I'm not going to say "stick it." I can smile at that, though... I can smile in agreement.
Luke Burbank: Well, best of luck and really great job on the film. It was just a really incredible and really heartwarming and funny. Marlee Matlin, thanks so much for coming on, Live Wire! And Jack, thank you so much as well.
Marlee Matlin (through interpreter): Thank you for listening.
Luke Burbank: That was Marlee Matlin right here on Live Wire, recorded last September. If you have not yet had a chance to watch CODA, it is out right now on Apple TV, so go check it out.
Luke Burbank: This is Live Wire from PRX. We've got to take a quick break. Don't go anywhere because we are going to talk to Kishi Bashi and also hear a song coming up in just a minute. Stay with us.
Luke Burbank: Welcome back to Live Wire. I'm your host, Luke Burbank, I'm here with my friend Elena Passarello, who also works on the show... I'm not just inviting random friends over to hang out.
Elena Passarello: Just chillin', you know?
Luke Burbank: Yeah, right, my pal Elena Passarello is here. Our musical guest this week is a multi-instrumentalist who blends pop, rock, electronica and other forms across his multitude of musical endeavors. He's also been working on a film project that we're going to hear about that just premiered at this year's South by Southwest Festival. His new EP, Emigrant, was released last year. Let's take a listen to our conversation with Kauro Ishibashi, also known as Kishi Bashi, who recorded this back in April.
Luke Burbank: Tell me about the creation of this, this new EP Emigrant... You were driving across the country with your daughter?
Kishi Bashi: Yeah, I ended up, you know... it's one of those things where last summer, like a lot of musicians, I really didn't have any tours. So I had a whole lot of time. I had this camper. So I took it across country all the way to Oregon, actually, and on the way stopped in Montana and there's a little town called Emigrant. It's beautiful. And, you know, because to emigrate is to leave, you know, in search of a better life... Immigrate is to enter the country, right? And so it kind of made sense. Like everybody, you know, we're all trying to figure out, especially myself, you know, since I had all this time about like, who I am, like where my place is here, like what...what is my role as artist, etc., etc. And these are all kind of things that I left to find out. It's the idea that, you know, when you leave the city and you kind of commune with nature, it kind of gives you a sense of like humility and also like an idea of like what it might actually look like a hundred years ago.
Luke Burbank: Hmm. You've been working on another project as well, right? That's being described as kind of a song-film.
Kishi Bashi: Yeah, so Omoiyari, the same name as my album that came out a couple of years ago, it's a documentary about minority identity and kind of like this Japanese-American experience and also, you know, history. So like internment camps and a lot of World War II history. And well, first of all, there's some camps out... the internment camps were all in these very remote areas, so I definitely did get a chance to see a lot of them when I was out there.
Luke Burbank: Did you then come back to Georgia with the memories in your head and start actually sitting down and writing the music? Or were you writing it along the way?
Kishi Bashi: I think it's kind of along the way. I mean, the way my music process works is I just collect, collect, collect ideas and then I put thoughts down. It's not, you know, I can never just sit down in one place, like at a café or, you know, it's always just a collection of a year's work of just thinking and improvising in songwriting.
Elena Passarello: Speaking of cafes, I have to tell you, my brother lives in Georgia and sent me a bunch of coffee because he was trying to patronize his favorite local businesses. So I pull out this bag of coffee and it had your name on it!
Kishi Bashi: Yeah, I got I got my own coffee. How cool is that?
Elena Passarello: How could that come about? I was so excited to drink your coffee. It was delicious, by the way.
Kishi Bashi: Oh, thanks. Yeah. Well, there's this great roaster. It's called Jittery Joe's in Athens, and it's great. It's local. They make the best coffee. So I partnered up with them, did a tasting, and the roasters is like my buddy, you know, so we got some, some great beans.
Luke Burbank: Are you a coffee connoisseur? Like, do you know what's going on when you're doing the tasting?
Kishi Bashi: I can tell what I like and I can tell what I don't like. And so no, no. But I like coffee. I love coffee. It's part of my life, you know, at least in the morning.
Luke Burbank: What are the overriding flavor notes of the Kishi Bashi blend?
Kishi Bashi: Hints of Asian and violin... [laughter] maybe some empathy.
Elena Passarello: Some rosin? There's a little bit of...
Kishi Bashi: Some rosin. Yeah, yeah.
Elena Passarello: Well, what song are we going to hear?
Kishi Bashi: Oh yeah, I'm going to do a song called "Wait for Springtime." It's a song... I actually finished it in Emigrant. It's kind of just about metaphorical springtime, you know, after COVID, the way I imagined it.
Elena Passarello: All right. Well, let's hear it. This is Kishi Bashi on the Live Wire House Party.
Kishi Bashi: [music plays] The magic of the season / Was second to no one / We came to gather in springtime / The summer came too fast / And the acre of a hill / Was suddenly big and small / T'was empty in the winter / I'll just wait for springtime / And I wanted you, so savage / Things that gentlemen admire / The most famous are the sinners / We were silenced all but one / I was reaching for the stars / But the rockets fair thee well / Oh the view on earth is magic / I'll just wait for springtime / Sunny days are behind every cloud up in the sky / Winter's coming from above and below / We'll be ready somehow / Heaven, save us for now / Heaven, save us from the rain / Wait for springtime / And they sentenced us forever / In prison for no crime / Our hearts are made of tender / With no room to nickel or dime / When the carriage stops at night / Will you think of my farewell? / The music plays in silence / I'll just wait for springtime / Wait for springtime / Sunny days are behind every cloud up in the sky / Winter's coming from above and below / We'll be ready somehow / Heaven, save us for now / Heaven, save us from the rain / Wait for springtime
Luke Burbank: That was Kishi Bashi right here on Live Wire. He is back out on the road as so many of our musical guests are once again. And you can figure out when he'll be in a city near you by going to kishibashi.com.
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Luke Burbank: All right, before we get out of here, a little preview of next week's show. We are going to be talking to acclaimed chef, two time Top Chef finalist on Bravo. Gregory Gourdet. We're going to talk about addiction and recovery in the restaurant industry and this amazing cookbook that he has out and also how his Haitian heritage inspired his latest restaurant undertaking. We're also going to talk to Julian Saporiti about how he transformed his doctoral research on Asian-American history into concerts and albums and films all under the name No-No Boy. It's really incredible multimedia history project he's been doing. We're also going to be looking to get your answers to our listener question, which is what this week Elena?
Luke Burbank: What is your surprising cooking hack? Hmm. Quesadilla in the toaster!
Luke Burbank: I just like to throw a slice of American cheese just right on a cracker... Is that the cooking hack?
Luke Burbank: It's a cooking snack?
Luke Burbank: OK, that's different. All right. If you have a cooking hack that you would like to share with us, you can let us know by way of social media. We are at Live Wire Radio just about everywhere where social media is happening.
Luke Burbank: That's going to do it for this week's episode of Live Wire, a huge thanks to our guests Laci Mosley, Marlee Matlin, and Kishi Bashi. Live Wire is brought to you in part by Alaska Airlines. Special thanks this episode to Joshua Leake and the Portland Film Festival.
Luke Burbank: Laura Hadden is our Executive Producer. Heather de Michele is our Executive Director. Tim Harkins is our Development and Marketing Director. Our producer and editor is Melanie Sevcenko, and our assistant editor is Tré Hester. A Walker Spring composes our music. Molly Pettit is our technical director and mixer. Viviana Castillo Serrano is our intern.
Luke Burbank: Additional funding provided by the Oregon Arts Commission, a state agency funded by the State of Oregon and the National Endowment for the Arts. Live Wire was created by Robyn Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff. This week, we'd like to thank members Brenda Hunt of Portland, Oregon, and Nathaniel Hultman of Tacoma, Washington. For more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast or our weekly Best News podcast, head on over to Live Wire Radio.org. I'm Luke Burbank for my pal Elena Passarello and the whole Live Wire crew. Thank you for listening and we will see you next week!
Luke Burbank: PRX.
